BRZ after Cayman S and M3... is it a downgrade? NOW WITH VIDEO!

[thill]

If the Lotus does come back to the US, I expect it to gain some weight to meet US safety standards. It (does not meet US safety standards for airbags) is the reason Lotus has not sold a car here since 2011. But yeah, that Exige is ultra light. Of course you could probably shave a few hundred more pounds from a BRZ/FR-S if you gutted it too...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

If the Lotus does come back to the US, I expect it to gain some weight to meet US safety standards. It (does not meet US safety standards for airbags) is the reason Lotus has not sold a car here since 2011. But yeah, that Exige is ultra light. Of course you could probably shave a few hundred more pounds from a BRZ/FR-S if you gutted it too...

you should google the upcoming lotus line. this is what happens when danny bahar hires swiss beatz to make the purest sports car in mass production. spoiler alert: 400 lbs

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you should google the upcoming lotus line. this is what happens when danny bahar hires swiss beatz to make the purest sports car in mass production. spoiler alert: 400 lbs

So it is heavier, but it also gained a ton more horsepower and torque.. The US version could weigh more since we require additional safey features. Would love to drive one.. Hopefully they will sell it here.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

So it is heavier, but it also gained a ton more horsepower and torque.. The US version could weigh more since we require additional safey features. Would love to drive one.. Hopefully they will sell it here.

im not saying its a bad car. the issue is that it isnt what the elise (or lotus for that matter ) is about and most of the arguments made here are totally opposite of this thought process this forum has. the difference gains more weight and less power than going from an frs to a 370z. if the 2014 frs weighed 3450 lbs and had 330 hp i dont think you would be as okay with it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im not saying its a bad car. the issue is that it isnt what the elise (or lotus for that matter ) is about and most of the arguments made here are totally opposite of this thought process this forum has. the difference gains more weight and less power than going from an frs to a 370z. if the 2014 frs weighed 3450 lbs and had 330 hp i dont think you would be as okay with it.

The Elise S CR is still under 2K lbs. And the Exige S is still under 2600lbs and it will make 345hp and almost 300ft lbs of torque. Both of those are very light for modern sports cars. The power to weight ratios are still quite impressive. The proof will be in the handling.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

The Elise S CR is still under 2K lbs. And the Exige S is still under 2600lbs and it will make 345hp and almost 300ft lbs of torque. Both of those are very light for modern sports cars. The power to weight ratios are still quite impressive. The proof will be in the handling.

those cars are cool. neither of those cars are planned to be a part of the future that bahar desires. you get a 2900 lb elan, a heavier elite and esprit. its pretty clear that they have no desire to make a pure sports car. with six digit price tags and what are relatively heavy concept cars, i cant see a company that came from "adding lightness" turning into this and not having lost its way along the lines. its not to say im not excited from these types of cars. its just not what i want from a lotus.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by s5pitfire

i apologize if you already mentioned it, but why did you move on from your S2000? what did you like most and dislike most?

i put a clutch in an early one (01 model?) and drove it, it was fun and super nimble, but having low end torque to play with when putting around town is what I want, rather than having to rev it to 9000 rpm if I want some fun.

i'm a car nut and am going to force myself to not go from sporty car to sporty car every couple of years... it'd become an addiction and i'd never be satisfied.

quote edit:

But the 325hp/272tq numbers are a bit disappointing for $70k+ because its almost identical to a 332hp/278tq 370z... but in it's defense, 2,900 lbs is about 400-500 lbs less than the Z.

It's all good, I don't mind explaining my reasoning. A few things about the S2000 started to get on my nerves:

• no rear seat (which is the domain of my dog - if I went anywhere with a gf and my dog the dog had to go on her lap)
• continual convertible top wear issues (holes worn into top at 19k & 55k, car was always garaged) [btw this is only an AP2 issue]
• premature clutch wear, thanks to the clutch delay valve and OEM mismatched pressure plate & flywheel. (you can fix this by swapping in AP1 parts [this is only an AP2 issue] but ironically that will void the vehicle's drivetrain warranty)
• not allowed at many tracks without aftermarket rollover protection (I didn't want to install one and hurt my car's resale value)
• lack of cargo space. The S2000's trunk is decently sized, but its kind of an odd shape and while things like a set of golf clubs fit fine in there, something as small as a collapsible beach chair would not

Don't get me wrong I loved that car and prefer it's interior, drivetrain and styling over the BRZ but as it was my primary transportation vehicle I decided I needed something a bit more practical. I knew it would be a downgrade in performance but I didn't think it would bother me that much (though it is now). When I bought the BRZ I was also looking at WRXs. I decided that either way I needed to downsize to just one car and that I would sell off the Integra as well. Of course here I am 7 months later and I can't bring myself to sell the old girl! lol.

Things I prefer about the BRZ:

• slightly more benign handling
• slightly more refined NVH
• considerably better around town low rpm driveability
• considerably better gas mileage (averaged 22/28 in S2000, averaging 28/34 in BRZ)
• waaaaaaay more cargo space for luggage, as well as my dog
• superior braking hardware (larger rotors, pads and calipers front and rear compared to the S2000)

I don't regret my decision. I want to own as many sports cars in my lifetime as I can...but I do get emotionally attached to my cars as well, haha

The comparison to the 370Z isn't a great one if you look below the surface. Sure the engine puts out more power (compared to the Cayman) but in most people's opinion it's an inferior engine. Way less refined and feels coarse. Sounds nowhere near as good. Overheats easily at the track. I would also imagine not as reliable (though I have nothing off hand to back that up). As a whole vehicle the Cayman has a superior interior, better steering, better brakes, better handling, better looks (subjective though I know) and roughly double the cargo capacity. Unfortunately the 370Z has too many compromises made inherent with it's FM platform, which is shared with many other Nissan and Infiniti models.

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

those cars are cool. neither of those cars are planned to be a part of the future that bahar desires. you get a 2900 lb elan, a heavier elite and esprit. its pretty clear that they have no desire to make a pure sports car. with six digit price tags and what are relatively heavy concept cars, i cant see a company that came from "adding lightness" turning into this and not having lost its way along the lines. its not to say im not excited from these types of cars. its just not what i want from a lotus.

Ahh, I see what you are saying now.. I did not realize what Bahar was doing with future plans. It really does seem like Lotus has lost their way. I still would love to own a used Exige/Elise someday, but they are so impractical that I probably would not.

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

those cars are cool. neither of those cars are planned to be a part of the future that bahar desires. you get a 2900 lb elan, a heavier elite and esprit. its pretty clear that they have no desire to make a pure sports car. with six digit price tags and what are relatively heavy concept cars, i cant see a company that came from "adding lightness" turning into this and not having lost its way along the lines. its not to say im not excited from these types of cars. its just not what i want from a lotus.

Nor sure if you saw this:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...plan-axed.html

As for future plans, Lotus will begin by offering new variants based on existing products but sporting improved technology, performance, quality and most importantly, cost. The Lotus Exige S Roadster was the first of these variants, and more will be coming from the Evora and Elise.

I hope it means that Bahar's plans are scrapped and Lotus will continue to build light, fun cars.

[WolfpackS2k]

His plans are scraped it seems. But one has to worry about the future of Lotus. They only sold 80 cars in all of 2012. That's very worrisome. In 2013 they've already eclipsed that number, but still...they're in a precarious position.

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

His plans are scraped it seems. But one has to worry about the future of Lotus. They only sold 80 cars in all of 2012. That's very worrisome. In 2013 they've already eclipsed that number, but still...they're in a precarious position.

Agreed. I really hope they can turn things around and stay solvent. It looks like Lotus is sueing Bahar as well. Guy was a real piece of work..

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by thill

Agreed. I really hope they can turn things around and stay solvent. It looks like Lotus is sueing Bahar as well. Guy was a real piece of work..

If they went ahead with the exige GT3, I would have bought one. Instead, they went with some ugly ass design as an update then made a new model that is even uglier...

[WolfpackS2k]

I actually like the "refresh" other than the weight gain. It's a non-issue for us Yanks though, as the car isn't sold here.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I actually like the "refresh" other than the weight gain. It's a non-issue for us Yanks though, as the car isn't sold here.

I even went as far as asking for one made for me as they already have the mould for the GT3...
No go...
http://www.auto-power-girl.com/wallp..._concept/34938
http://www.evo.co.uk/front_website/g....php?id=216876