Must be getting old

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by boead

That's not what many are saying but ill take your word on it as your opinion. But I think your missing the point. No two cars are alike but the end result, the driving experience and the style of the ride is not "worlds apart" seriously. What else can you get that's closer for less than half the price?
You know what I can get for $55k?? A New Stringray which will eat the Porsche all day long in every way.
Ive owned cars and dealt with high end dealerships too. You get what you pay for! Its built in and yeah, im annoyed that I cant get a loaner but my insurance company will pay for a number of rentals and, tada, the Toyota dealership is setup for it! No additional expense to me and I get it overnight!
BTW: Subaru dealerships suck! The GIANT Toyota dealerships by me are great!
This car, for the price, can have all the faults it wants but I bet it doesn't!

I have this very high end mechanic for like 15+ years, hes become a friend. He services my families cars, mostly Mercedes. He's been "the reason" I can own a MB, fixes things better and much cheaper than the dealerships! We've shopped Porsche a number of times, the cars are expensive and demanding when they start to age! Few aren't and some are unaffordable, cost more in maintenance averaged out monthly over time than a new FR-S.
Most get rid of them just before the first wave of tires, breaks and "tune up" that can cost thousands. About $9000 on as new 911 and its just begun. Not an everyday driver for most.
I drive nearly 30k miles a year, not always in the same car but I don't believe in a garage car. I believe cars are meant to be driven!

Originally Posted by maxx1957

lol, all I meant is for a car that cost that much,( the 530) I was hoping for less problems, yes its a nice car, but if it keeps breaking its just not worth it. I have more fun in the frs anyway, if something breaks I'm sure it would be a lot less expensive. And no I'm not buying another, that was my 3rd and last bmw...

i hear ya! i learned my lesson years ago! three porsches and a vw eurovan
told me all i need to know! they make a big deal about the "so-called" superior german engineering,but ask yourself this! WHY can't they build a car that has a "better than average" repair record like the japanese do? if the engineering prowess was so clearly better,why is this not reflected in the overall repair record over time? interesting!

[boead]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Now if we just teach people how to actually drive a car before we give them a license...

Now your asking for WAY to much!
How about re-newing licences every few years?!?
How about enforcing the "drive right" rule?!?! Seriously, pull over and ticket the left lane squatters for allowing faster traffic to pass on the right!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by boead

...
How about enforcing the "drive right" rule?!?! Seriously, pull over and ticket the left lane squatters for allowing faster traffic to pass on the right!

Oddly enough there is a bill in front of the legislature in Georgia for this very thing right now...

[boead]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Oddly enough there is a bill in front of the legislature in Georgia for this very thing right now...

It needs to be enforced!! I have a number of friends who are police, they enforce speeding and seat-belt/cell phone violators.

Hang a bitch of driving with her directional on for 50 miles! That will help.

[russv]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Oddly enough there is a bill in front of the legislature in Georgia for this very thing right now...

Anyone who has driven in Europe knows that they follow the left lane rules to the letter.

[Rayfield]

I'm an admin at a WRX forum...back in 2002 when the model first came to the U.S., the board was all about the feel and performance of the car. ("What's the best tire for autocross?" "Why did they make the rear sway so small on the wagon?", etc.)

The car has evolved into a much more refined package (relative to my 2002 model, that is), and we've definitely seen a swing to the demographic. ("Why can't I get a sunroof in XXX model?" "My power windows don't all roll up at the same speeds!" ) You get the idea.

It's axiomatic, the current kids will call the next generation whiners when their turn comes.

Agreed about Europe. I've driven extensively in Holland, and have had time on the Italian Autostrada. They seem to be solely focused on "driving". Could just be my impression, though.

[boead]

I feel like im driving this car to hard. Averaging 25mpg :-(

Im finding it needs lots of throttle to move along; bogging below 2000rpms. Just cant get enough torque to the wheels. And im shifting to high I think, ridding the clutch a bit - trying to get use to this 6-speed.
This old guy is finding it fatiguing ripping up and down so many gears. If it had more torque!

Got to start skipping gears more but...

[TheEradicator]

I'm 28 (not a kid, but not a wise man by any stretch) and I've grown up around/ driving old trucks from the 1950s and tractors from the 1920's, and one thing people don't seem to do anymore is respect the machines they drive. Modern cars make driving easier by controlling more things so the driver doesnt have to think, so eventually people think they are good drivers, even though the cars doing most of the work. People naturally get over confident and eventually ignorant to what driving is.
I've tried using blue tooth and listening to music while driving my frs, but even that pulls my attention from the engine, which gear I'm in, rev matching for a smooth shift etc. and I find myself not thinking about driving, so I've cut the none essentials on my daily drive and I find myself paying more attention to the car, treating it with the same respect I treated the older vehicles I've driven while I grew up learning to drive.

[cgrey]

Originally Posted by boead

I feel like im driving this car to hard. Averaging 25mpg :-(

Im finding it needs lots of throttle to move along; bogging below 2000rpms. Just cant get enough torque to the wheels. And im shifting to high I think, ridding the clutch a bit - trying to get use to this 6-speed.
This old guy is finding it fatiguing ripping up and down so many gears. If it had more torque!

Got to start skipping gears more but...

25 what? City?

18mpg here.

It's a 4 cylinder with an impressive low end, but what are you trying to do below 2k rpm? You may not be driving the car hard enough.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by boead

I feel like im driving this car to hard. Averaging 25mpg :-(

Im finding it needs lots of throttle to move along; bogging below 2000rpms. Just cant get enough torque to the wheels. And im shifting to high I think, ridding the clutch a bit - trying to get use to this 6-speed.
This old guy is finding it fatiguing ripping up and down so many gears. If it had more torque!

Got to start skipping gears more but...

I understand exactly what you're saying. While I like my BRZ for these reasons, I fully understand what you're saying.

I said, early on, that people need to test drive this car extensively, because it may prove unsatisfactory for many reasons to a good many drivers who are unaccustomed to cars like this.

See if this resonates with you: A young member of the Honda S2000 forum said that his Dad had a new S2000 for a while, but soon sold it. He found it TOO INTENSE to drive.

The twins are like that. That close ratio gearbox keeps you shifting all the time, the low torque (relatively speaking), 2 Liter engine, normally aspirated (no turbo), and peaky performance requiring the driver to keep the revs up for any kind of performance ... conspires to make it tiring to drive for those accustomed to and preferring a more relaxed driving experience. Adding to these traits is that it's noisy, and rough riding with its stiff sporting suspension and low profile tires. (Keep those tire pressures up, or you'll bend a rim lip on today's ubiquitous potholes on our decaying roads.)

Actually, it's got good torque down low compared to many other cars with similar engines. It is quite powerful for a 2 Liter, putting out 100 hp/Liter, which is a very respectable figure. Such engines are intense, though, and typically don't offer much until they're "on the boil." (High rpms.)

But, it appears to not be what you'd expected.

By the way, you do NOT want to skip gears. You need, instead, to remain in the current gear and get the revs up higher in the power band to realize better performance. Of course, that further reduces fuel economy AND it creates more COMMOTION than you may like. I always keep my rpms over 2000. I mosey around my village at 2000-3000 rpm, typically in 3rd gear. But there's not much grunt down there, and if you're accustomed to big engines with lots of torque at a mere 1600 rpm, you'll be surprised and possibly dismayed with the twins.

"Too intense..."

It's not Right or Wrong, Good or Bad, it's just different from what some folks expected. It may just be the wrong car for you, is all.

Here's a car for you to go test drive: 2013 Mazdaspeed3. It's a turbo. We've had two in a row. We love ours. Give it a test drive and come talk to me.

-Porsche (a fellow old guy )

[whaap]

Originally Posted by TheEradicator

I'm 28 (not a kid, but not a wise man by any stretch) and I've grown up around/ driving old trucks from the 1950s and tractors from the 1920's, and one thing people don't seem to do anymore is respect the machines they drive. Modern cars make driving easier by controlling more things so the driver doesnt have to think, so eventually people think they are good drivers, even though the cars doing most of the work. People naturally get over confident and eventually ignorant to what driving is.
I've tried using blue tooth and listening to music while driving my frs, but even that pulls my attention from the engine, which gear I'm in, rev matching for a smooth shift etc. and I find myself not thinking about driving, so I've cut the none essentials on my daily drive and I find myself paying more attention to the car, treating it with the same respect I treated the older vehicles I've driven while I grew up learning to drive.

You might be 50 years younger than I am but I certainly admire and respect what you're saying. My FR-S is the first car I've owned that the radio is kept off.

[boead]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I understand exactly what you're saying. While I like my BRZ for these reasons, I fully understand what you're saying.

I said, early on, that people need to test drive this car extensively, because it may prove unsatisfactory for many reasons to a good many drivers who are unaccustomed to cars like this.

See if this resonates with you: A young member of the Honda S2000 forum said that his Dad had a new S2000 for a while, but soon sold it. He found it TOO INTENSE to drive.

The twins are like that. That close ratio gearbox keeps you shifting all the time, the low torque (relatively speaking), 2 Liter engine, normally aspirated (no turbo), and peaky performance requiring the driver to keep the revs up for any kind of performance ... conspires to make it tiring to drive for those accustomed to and preferring a more relaxed driving experience. Adding to these traits is that it's noisy, and rough riding with its stiff sporting suspension and low profile tires. (Keep those tire pressures up, or you'll bend a rim lip on today's ubiquitous potholes on our decaying roads.)

Actually, it's got good torque down low compared to many other cars with similar engines. It is quite powerful for a 2 Liter, putting out 100 hp/Liter, which is a very respectable figure. Such engines are intense, though, and typically don't offer much until they're "on the boil." (High rpms.)

But, it appears to not be what you'd expected.

By the way, you do NOT want to skip gears. You need, instead, to remain in the current gear and get the revs up higher in the power band to realize better performance. Of course, that further reduces fuel economy AND it creates more COMMOTION than you may like. I always keep my rpms over 2000. I mosey around my village at 2000-3000 rpm, typically in 3rd gear. But there's not much grunt down there, and if you're accustomed to big engines with lots of torque at a mere 1600 rpm, you'll be surprised and possibly dismayed with the twins.

"Too intense..."

It's not Right or Wrong, Good or Bad, it's just different from what some folks expected. It may just be the wrong car for you, is all.

Here's a car for you to go test drive: 2013 Mazdaspeed3. It's a turbo. We've had two in a row. We love ours. Give it a test drive and come talk to me.

-Porsche (a fellow old guy )

I appreciate the responces, they are dead on! Car is ok for me, its what I wanted. I actually anticipated investing about $10k into it, IF I liked it enough. It a budget I have for a car and the FRS was ten grand lower. An investment would be in the form of a supercharger or twin-turbo, mild sided modest 275-300HP. Eliminating the torque issue at low speed.

Yes, im trying to drive the car with some politeness, not just to myself but to my road neighbors! The last car I owned with a manual was a VW Scirocco, think I had a Honda or something with a stick in there too but the one I had for any real length of time was a 86 Mustang GT.
Its been years since I owned a manual, driven many owned by others but my last few were automatics.
The Mustang had pull at low speed. BUT my last (and still own) car was an Acura RSX. I know all about low torque, high rev driving. People sometimes comment how I drive my car, reeving the motor often just to get it to Move! But the RSX is reserved, quiet and the Automatic polite and smooth. Very different animal to the FRS, even how the motor climbs, how the power comes on. Both the boxer and the Vtech spec alike but feel very different! BTW: I DID like the Automatic 6-speed offered in the FRS, I drove both for a while. The "Fun" factor was almost gone with the automatic, exactly how I have always felt about the RSX.
I owned an Accord not to long ago too and I currently have a Pathfinder and just prior to that an E300 MB. The MB and Nissan motors have Lots of torque! Had a Navigator in there too, also torque strong motor.

I just find the need to keep this car up between 3000-4000 rpms all the time a bit fatiguing! And it makes rev matching a chore and the car really jerks one way or another, its gearbox and rear feel small and light. Im afraid im gonna break it :-/

[Z-PDX]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

I agree this is the whiniest (sp?) forums I've been on in over 10 years. The new generation expect flawless cars apparently. There's a bunch of threads showing off single rock chips!

Hang in there. This forum will be badass in a few years once the value of these cars drops and they hit the secondary market.

THEN the real mods, insanity and fun will start.

It it the same on the corvette and bmw forums. The current gen forum can be whiney, but, step back one or more generations after the cars have gotten cheap and available...... And it's a whole new world.

[Z-PDX]

Originally Posted by boead

Now your asking for WAY to much!
How about re-newing licences every few years?!?
How about enforcing the "drive right" rule?!?! Seriously, pull over and ticket the left lane squatters for allowing faster traffic to pass on the right!

Careful what you wish for. Right now there are people lobbying for better speed enforcement.