If the FT-86 is a fail...what will you do?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Actually, IIRC, the renault Megane took the FWD record, but yes, I am expecting a lot from the FT-86/FR-S/Subieyota blah blah blah whatever.

Not sure where you are getting your times from, But all things being equal (day/driver/weather/tyres) the Cobalt is not going to be beating any of those cars (**edit** NSX,S2000, Exige, Boxter Spider, Cayman S, E46 M3... the rest.. not so sure) around a track. Forget what you see on Wikipedia.

cobalts do in fact embarrass many of those cars. what makes your statement any more valid than the ones you refute? neither one of you guys have sources but if you follow the scca runoffs you see cobalts dominating every class they are in

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Do you really drive a Miata?




This. Using the ring as a yard stick has just come into popularity, but German (and few others, Toyota included) manufacturers have been testing there for ages.

As for the time, no way it will be sub 7 minute, but I do hope it would at least beat the Cobalt SS which at 8:22 is the fastest car in that price bracket to my knowledge as well as being "officially" the fastest fwd @ the ring.

As for a 2ZZ MR-S being dull... lolwut?

yeah i drive a miata...why?

and yeah the mr2 was not what i expected...was your experience with one different?

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

cobalts do in fact embarrass many of those cars. what makes your statement any more valid than the ones you refute? neither one of you guys have sources but if you follow the scca runoffs you see cobalts dominating every class they are in

You mean in a track that corolla can run around one lap in less than 2 minutes? Why not put Cobalt to a bigass track?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

You mean in a track that corolla can run around one lap in less than 2 minutes? Why not put Cobalt to a bigass track?

what?

[huyttz]

times im specifically referencing is nurburgring times... what wiki says is actually correct. i've been keeping my own tally for over 10 years now. problem with nurburgring times is sometimes the weather sucks, sometimes there is someone in your way. if you live by those times, you will also die by them. don't cry to me about different weather conditions and different track and it will be different when you yourself use "the ring" as a yardstick. these times are an accepted standard which manufacturers fight over.

the cobalt SS is a beast, but yes it is a cobalt... which is why i did not buy one. (bought a GTI instead) unless you live nearby the nurburgring, you shouldn't even be concerned with those lap times... those cars are clearly slower, but certainly more fun to drive... the FR-S is not about lap times, so I believe you will be disappointed.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Dark

Why not put Cobalt to a bigass track?

How about Laguna Seca?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

or Virginia International Raceway?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/vi...l_raceway.html

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by old greg

How about Laguna Seca?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

or Virginia International Raceway?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/vi...l_raceway.html

I think Nurburgring is probably as big as it gets!

Thanks for posting the link. Laguna is very strict on the noise (90db) so I wonder if that factors in to the lap times.

Nice to see the Willow Springs lap times too! Cool to get an idea of what cars are in the upper 20's to mid 30's on that track!

[Matador]

Originally Posted by old greg

I'd take the S2000 and NSX off that list. I'm sure they're faster through the corners, but there are a lot of straightaways on the nordschleife and the ss/tc makes much more power under the curve than either of them. Heck, just watch the oboard footage on youtube and see how much time the driver spends at WOT.

Wasn't specifically speaking about the ring, but I accept your assessment as valid.

Originally Posted by fatoni

yeah i drive a miata...why?

and yeah the mr2 was not what i expected...was your experience with one different?

What was your expectation of the MR-S?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Wasn't specifically speaking about the ring, but I accept your assessment as valid.



What was your expectation of the MR-S?

i asked you first...really it just wasnt as fast and lively as i though it would have been. the tranny wasnt as stellar as i hoped either. it just seemed that the swap wasnt worth the money. there was a passenger in the car so that probably could account for some of it but it was underwhelming. it would be a good starting point for a car but i dont know if id be happy if a project ended there. thats all

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i asked you first...really it just wasnt as fast and lively as i though it would have been. the tranny wasnt as stellar as i hoped either. it just seemed that the swap wasnt worth the money. there was a passenger in the car so that probably could account for some of it but it was underwhelming. it would be a good starting point for a car but i dont know if id be happy if a project ended there. thats all

That's the one problem with light cars. Weight additions play more of a role. Damn. Will have to put a maximum passenger weight sticker on it, heh...

I figure half the price of the FR-S could make a pretty nice swapped MR-S, and still keep it reliable.

Was it a swapped 6 speed, too? It could have been what was done to the linkage. Converting a FWD trans linkage to an MR RWD trans linkage could be problematic if not done properly.

If it was a 2ZZGE into a 5 speed car, that could have been a engine/trans mis-match problem.

Other issue, is how they did the exhaust manifold/exhaust.

In my case it would be a nice daily driver with a fun-factor close to what the FR-S is supposed to be.

Supra is the fast car, but it's a bit rough.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

That's the one problem with light cars. Weight additions play more of a role. Damn. Will have to put a maximum passenger weight sticker on it, heh...

I figure half the price of the FR-S could make a pretty nice swapped MR-S, and still keep it reliable.

Was it a swapped 6 speed, too? It could have been what was done to the linkage. Converting a FWD trans linkage to an MR RWD trans linkage could be problematic if not done properly.

If it was a 2ZZGE into a 5 speed car, that could have been a engine/trans mis-match problem.

Other issue, is how they did the exhaust manifold/exhaust.

In my case it would be a nice daily driver with a fun-factor close to what the FR-S is supposed to be.

Supra is the fast car, but it's a bit rough.

it was a six speed and i dont know too much of the details on the swap. it would be a cool daily driver but i just have it in the back of my head that forced induction would be much cheaper although not as cool. i probably sound lke a fanboy but there is so much more information and aftermarket for the miata that aside from the cool factor, mr2s seem lacking. like ive said, i really hope the ft86 is what i want it to be.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by fatoni

it was a six speed and i dont know too much of the details on the swap. it would be a cool daily driver but i just have it in the back of my head that forced induction would be much cheaper although not as cool. i probably sound lke a fanboy but there is so much more information and aftermarket for the miata that aside from the cool factor, mr2s seem lacking. like ive said, i really hope the ft86 is what i want it to be.

FI isn't cheaper. There's a kit for the 1ZZ-FE starting at $3500, but thats just to slap it on. You want to make it a reliable FI engine? You have to build the internals to handle the FI, upgrade the injectors, etc. etc.

You can source a used 2ZZ-GE w/ tranny for about $3000. Add another ~$700 for misc. crap you need to do and it comes out cheaper, since you don't have to tear the engine apart and rebuild it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

FI isn't cheaper. There's a kit for the 1ZZ-FE starting at $3500, but thats just to slap it on. You want to make it a reliable FI engine? You have to build the internals to handle the FI, upgrade the injectors, etc. etc.

You can source a used 2ZZ-GE w/ tranny for about $3000. Add another ~$700 for misc. crap you need to do and it comes out cheaper, since you don't have to tear the engine apart and rebuild it.

i could be wrong but i doubt you would need new internals or an upgraged fuel system to bring the 1zz up to 2zz output

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i could be wrong but i doubt you would need new internals or an upgraged fuel system to bring the 1zz up to 2zz output

If you want to run a bolt on Turbo kit on an engine that's built for N/A, be my guest. Honestly, if I'm spending $3500, then I'm gonna spend another $1500 or so to rebuild the engine so I -know- the engine will handle it correctly. At the same time, by doing so, you open up the door for more boost and even better power gains.

Hell the company that sells the kit even recommends (for good reason) to upgrade the internals if you're going to use the kit.

Thats just me though. Most sound-minded people won't do a turbo install on an N/A engine without beefing up internals, if need be. Honestly not sure how the 1ZZ handles small boost. It might not mess with the engine enough to cut its lifespan in half. I wouldn't take the chance though.