09-29-2020, 06:46 PM | #155 | |
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Then you need the cooling/heating circuits when the vehicle is not even running to maintain the batteries in certain conditions. We also lack the infrastructure to produce electricity to produce batteries or the energy to put into them in a carbon-neutral way. The electricity we do make needs to be used on production. If you were to store that in battery banks you are accepting yet another ~40% loss. Adding a supercharger station is not incredibly easy btw, and you need significantly more of them compared to fueling stations to service the same number of vehicles. I think we talked about this in another thread. Then you have to look at the whole car. Batteries are heavy, and in order to get good range/performance you need a lot of them. Heavier cars cost more energy to build, use more consumables like tires (which take energy to produce) and put more stress on roadways (which take energy to maintain). The total energy needed to move a heavier vehicle is greater therefore absolute losses from discharging or regenerative braking are going to be higher than a lighter vehicle. |
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09-29-2020, 06:58 PM | #156 |
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Have you ever worked with autonomous machines? Fun fact, the smarter the machine, the less likely it is to do exactly what you want it to do. It's essentially like perpetually having a teenager that has the ability to make decisions without really thinking through the consequences. One day, your car just doesn't show up, because it forgot to wake up, or drove into a ditch because it didn't see that ice on the road, or broke down and sat in the middle of the road crying for help. Now you gotta go find your car, pay for the damages it caused, get it fixed up, and scold it while it sits there staring at you blankly because it's a car and it don't GAF.
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09-29-2020, 08:16 PM | #157 | |
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The actual charger is also >93% efficient, and cruising on the highway the battery is around 99% efficient (closer to 90% if you're "giving it the beans"), so the round-trip efficiency is easily over 80% on average. That's why grid storage with them is considered viable. Now of course, if your car needed to drive itself far away to be stored and charge itself, then all of that is wasted and drops the efficiency, and if you live in a less populated area that would be a very significant proportion of the total miles the car has to do. Hydrogen is fundamentally difficult to work with because it diffuses through stuff and needs ultra-high-pressure storage. Luckily, we already have hydrogen stored at room temperature! It's called LPG and gasoline I personally think liquid dinosaur fuel will survive for a long time, but in the form of range extenders that can only be switched on in rural areas since they'll probably ban combustion in cities for pollution reasons. The excuse electric car enthusiasts make for charging time is "come on waiting 20 minutes isn't that bad!", except that's directly at odds with the promise of autonomous driving, where driver fatigue stops being a problem. Fast charging 1MWh of batteries in a long haul truck is no joke...you would need several MWh of grid storage to support that kind of transient load. if the truck drives itself, the trucking company is gonna want that thing on the road, not sitting around charging. If all city cars become electric, then there should be plenty of cheap oil for rural and long distance vehicles to burn. Last edited by serialk11r; 09-29-2020 at 08:27 PM. |
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09-29-2020, 08:27 PM | #158 | |
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Again, this is a potential solution for people without garages in cold climates. There are other potential solutions.
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09-29-2020, 08:36 PM | #159 |
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@Irace86.2.0
The problem with Freevalve is actually more about power consumption. All of the energy compressing the valve spring is lost, whereas with a cam drive you can recover a good portion, which becomes significant as the engine speed and valve lift increase. This is made worse by the fact that generating compressed air or pressurized oil is not efficient. You don't need high valve lift most of the time so it's not that bad, but it still makes a dent on fuel efficiency. Additionally, since valvetrain power becomes a consideration, at moderate to high engine speeds using higher valve lift would reduce pumping losses, but it would increase valve actuator power consumption. It turns out that fixed cam profiles really aren't as limiting as people originally thought. High EGR dilution ratios are by far the most important technique of improving part load efficiency, and you can cover the near-idle load scenario with cylinder deactivation or a second cam profile ala Honda/Porsche. While chain driven cams probably are heavier than a Freevalve setup, I imagine a belt or gear driven overhead cam setup is actually lighter than Freevalve including the air pump. |
09-29-2020, 09:29 PM | #160 | |
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The cost and speed of installing Supercharger stations is considerably cheaper. The cost to just set up a 120V outlet in garages, parking lots, etc is even cheaper. Supercharging will be nice, but the reality is that it just isn't that necessary. Home, overnight charging will be the preferred method. The average person drives 29.2 miles a day, so charging at night can accommodate that use with only 120v. Still, there is already technology for fast charging, but they are waiting for the batteries to catch up. There are companies with chargers that can add 20 miles a minute. That would be 100 miles in 5 minutes. Where will it be in another 15 years? You say we need a lot of charging stations, but this assumes people will spend more time at charging stations. If most of the charging is done at home or at work or in parking garages then Supercharger stations will be used primarily for anyone who is commuting many miles in a given day. This is very different from how people refuel now. Right now, fueling stations aren't used all throughout the day. They are used at certain peak times like before and after work. At night, most of them are empty. A car could be programmed to drive itself to the nearest charging station in the middle of the night to charge itself. In states like Oregon, a person can't pump their own gas, so having an attendant plug in the car isn't a big deal. In all likelihood, the process will eventually be fully automated. A Tesla Model 3 standard range weighs 3,550 and the long range weighs 3,800lbs. That is on par with other cars in its class like a Lexus IS or BMW 3 series. Battery weight will only drop from there over time. Most people just won't need a large battery too, once we lose range anxiety. Just like a family may buy a SUV for storage and trips and a small car or sports car, a family may opt for a long range vehicle and a short range vehicle. I commute 2.4 miles to work, so I could definitely live with a car with less range. And as it pertains to hydrogen cars, they are not lighter. The Toyota Mirai is 4100lbs. Batteries will most likely get lighter. I don't think hydrogen fuel cells, fuel tanks, etc will fundamentally be able to get lighter.
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09-29-2020, 09:40 PM | #161 | |
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And anyways, how would any of that be different than if you were in your car? I can tell you that many people would rather be stuck at home trying to sort an issue with their car than stuck on the side of the road.
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09-29-2020, 09:59 PM | #162 | ||
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Their design seems to include the accessories. Quote:
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09-29-2020, 11:11 PM | #163 | |
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Additionally, what you are describing in the scenario increases the amount of miles driven significantly, therefore is likely to increase the number of incidents. I would rather be present in person to make decisions rather than have my $60k property sitting somewhere doing something I don't know about. There indeed are a lot of people who prefer to avoid the stress of responsibility. I guess I just like stress... It's like when your niece was scammed by that car dealer. You could have told her what to do and let it be. But no, you went in person to handle it. |
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09-30-2020, 01:21 AM | #164 | |
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Not if self-driving cars reduce the incidence even more significantly, which it will undoubtedly do. I wouldn’t be surprised if driving was eventually illegal someday on public roads. Live it up while you can; the world will change faster than we think. It isn’t about stress. It is about access to resources. If you have ever been stuck on the side of the road without cellular reception and far from civilization then you wish you were home with a phone, your toolbox and a second means of getting around.
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09-30-2020, 01:31 AM | #165 |
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I don't believe we'll see driving outlawed in our life times. But I do believe some of us will see human driving insurance rates become prohibitively expensive in that time frame.
No different than what's already happened with homeownership. You can legally purchase a house for cash with knob and tube wiring, a fuse panel, a hole in the roof, and at triple the going rate of comparable houses. But no insurance or mortgage company will ever sign off on the deal
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09-30-2020, 02:04 AM | #166 | |
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https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/13/1...r-scam-diy-kit
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09-30-2020, 02:14 AM | #167 |
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Saw this pop up in the news. I was kind of bummed two cities pulled out. I hope more don't pull out. I think we need to push nuclear more, and this looks promising, and if it pans out, it could revive positive perception and interest in nuclear.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...ar-revolution/ Two Cities Just Pulled Out of the Tiny Reactor Nuclear Revolution https://www.nuscalepower.com/technol...ology-overview
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09-30-2020, 02:18 AM | #168 | |
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For the lulz, allow me to present this scenario. If an occupant has a medical emergency in a tesla on autopilot, wouldn't the car just keep going? Any other car would come to a stop in some fashion, which would call attention to it and allow medical personnel access. How would you treat somebody in a moving car? No, I have not been stranded on the side of the road with no cell service. Then again, I don't know of any location within 15 miles of a parking garage where there isn't any cell service or at least somewhere you can use a phone to call for help. How about you? |
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