Destiny Raid Groups/ General Discussion

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by 53Driver

Well my response to that would be is that they need to stop "FIXING" things that aren't broke then, like people "cheesing" the Raids. That's my point, they keep "fixing" things that aren't "broke" instead wanting to force people to play the game in a certain way all the while the stuff people are actually complaining about gets ignored. Not to mention all the bugs that have been introduced when they starting tinkering with the Raids. I remember trying to do VoG right afer they "fixed it" (removed the 'cheese') and it was basically unplayable due to all the new bugs they introduced. That's pretty much when I quit trying to do the Raid(s) because I remember how frustrating it was when you play the Raid for 4 hours and can't get past it due to the multiple errors and people getting booted to orbit etc. The Raid, at least for me, was hard enough trying to find the few hours to dedicate to it let alone when there's tons of issues with it.

Look, I'm not harping on you. IMO, it just comes down to priorities. Certainly I'm no coder and I know it isn't an easy job. But "fixing" things that aren't "broken" (and introducing bugs because of said tinkering) while igoring legitimate complaints/bugs is something that has irritated a decent portion of the fan base and rightfully so. In the end, I just enjoy the elements of the game that I like doing and have the time for. I'm certainly not one of those who's yelled at Bungie or stormed off, I mean I still play on almost a daily basis and I probably have around 500 hours into this game now. This weekend is the first time I actually started and finished the new Raid though because after the last patch guess what, Crota was "buggy" and after trying to beat him for 3 hours it got so late we had to give up. @f0rge can back that one up.

I get it, and I fully understand why people are upset. But like I said, it's not like they're not working on one thing because they are working on another. Bungie just really needs to work on transparency and communication. That's the real issue from my perspective. They say "Oh we fixed the thing that allowed this cheese" and then don't address the other issues that people are clamoring for, and then everyone that isn't familiar with the industry and the processes sees that they have someone working on the little things that satisfy them, but not the community. Breaking things unintentionally with live fixes is, unfortunately, a hazard of the job. I would imagine in that case though they should have another week or so of testing. I don't know if a PTR is a feasible option, but a lot of other games do it. It would at least give them a very large playerbase to test the new stuff.

You can't really get mad at them for wanting to fix the cheese though. Cheesing is exploiting an unintended scenario, whether people like it or not.

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

I'm not going to say its trivial to fix the problem, but as someone whose been programming for awhile now, and the fact this has been a bug since day one, makes me believe they fundamentally programmed something wrong and just now figured out a band aid fix for it. I don't know if they are tackling the root cause or not. Hopefully they are because its likely if its a band aid there will be more bugs somewhere.

This is the most likely scenario. Bashkeys is a coder, and I gave him their explanation of why everything was broken and he said "Why would they do that? That's a terrible way to do it!"

[f0rge]

I'm pretty sure the "bug fix team" or whatever you call it is like 2 guys at this point.

The base game is already out, most of them are now coding the expansions and Destiny 2. The cleanup crew's priority for fixes is likely the same as the developers at this point, aka "fix anything that allows people to beat content more quickly than we'd like" (cheeses), then fix the rest.

The community can yell and scream all they want and the coders can even agree with them, but if Bungie works like any large business they're getting direction from way up top. And let me tell you the guys way up top don't care about anything other than padding their wallets.

This is not a rant against Bungie, just the reality of the situation. One guy on reddit had a great thread called "Bungie is not your friend" and he's 100% right.

[MokSpeed]

I, for one, don't mind if people cheese and don't understand when people b*tch and groan about it. How does it affect you at all? They have the same RNG parameters when it comes to loot. It's not like their chances of raid gear are increased due to them cheesing the raid. It's not like they're using aim bot in PvP to dominate you. You have the choice to cheese as well. So why let it bother you? Just because you feel like they didn't "earn" it does not make it true. The reason Bungie is so quick to hot patch them is mainly because of two reasons: whiny gamers who complain and their continued desire to place restrictive parameters on character progression. Why else do you think you can only earn loot once a week? Why do you think there are limits to earning crucible and vanguard marks? As I've stated before gamers shouldn't be punished for willing to spend more time grinding in the game. They place all these limits to make their game content last longer when in reality it isn't necessary.

[n2oinferno]

I don't care if people cheese or not. I don're care if RNGesus blesses people with weapons or they save their coins or if they're praying to a totem pole hoping that a Mythoclast dops. I'm saying, the guys that made the game have every right to say "Yeah we totally didn't mean to allow that to happen" and then fix it. I imagine that motivation increases especially when they see the LFG sites have a majority of posts looking for cheese runs to basically trivialize what is supposed to be their hardest content that requires the most effort.

[f0rge]

I don't care what people do either, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

I'm just here to shoot things.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I don't care if people cheese or not. I don're care if RNGesus blesses people with weapons or they save their coins or if they're praying to a totem pole hoping that a Mythoclast dops. I'm saying, the guys that made the game have every right to say "Yeah we totally didn't mean to allow that to happen" and then fix it. I imagine that motivation increases especially when they see the LFG sites have a majority of posts looking for cheese runs to basically trivialize what is supposed to be their hardest content that requires the most effort.

Valid points.

I'd really like to see them actually institute challenging events and sequences in their raids that require teamwork and coordination. Perhaps more puzzle challenges or something. Simply throwing in a bunch of enemies 2 levels above the current player level cap hardly counts as "hard mode".

[53Driver]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I don't care if people cheese or not. I don're care if RNGesus blesses people with weapons or they save their coins or if they're praying to a totem pole hoping that a Mythoclast dops. I'm saying, the guys that made the game have every right to say "Yeah we totally didn't mean to allow that to happen" and then fix it. I imagine that motivation increases especially when they see the LFG sites have a majority of posts looking for cheese runs to basically trivialize what is supposed to be their hardest content that requires the most effort.

Well then they need to start game testing their own product better. Certainly gaming has become much more complex than in the old days where a game shipped as is and there was no "fixing" it once it was released. The online, evolving world concept certainly cuts both ways. It just irritates me that they continually "fix" things that aren't really "broken" but the things that are actually "broken" don't seem to get any kind of priority.

With that being said, I still enjoy the game. The bigger frustration at times is connectivity. Between the Destiny servers and XBL (I know that doesn't apply to the PSN bubbas) it can be annoying when you can't get online or you get dropped from a game. Certainly some of this is outside their control, especially when hackers get involved.

I agree with MokSpeed, maybe there needs to be an addition of some form of other challenges other than just adding more enemies who are also a level or two higher than the players. It smacks of real Dev laziness but then again maybe f0rge is right, they're so busy working on the next game/DLC/expansions that the current game is just going be low priority from this point.

I do hope that the honest criticisms and issues get addressed in whatever content follows HoWs. In many ways it's a great game, in fact a lot of this I wouldn't even complain about as much if they'd just fix/add to the story line! There really needs to be some sort of in-game story telling, not this Grimoire crap. I'd be so much more likley to look over the other faults if I felt more connected to the game as far as storyline goes.

[f0rge]

Holy crap I hope that "leaked" May 19th date for House of Wolves is wrong.

That's...so...far...

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Valid points.

I'd really like to see them actually institute challenging events and sequences in their raids that require teamwork and coordination. Perhaps more puzzle challenges or something. Simply throwing in a bunch of enemies 2 levels above the current player level cap hardly counts as "hard mode".

This I agree with. Mechanics should change slightly for hard modes. A bullet sponge just means you need more ammo. They could take a page from WoW about this one.

Originally Posted by f0rge

Holy crap I hope that "leaked" May 19th date for House of Wolves is wrong.

That's...so...far...

I wonder if it's a placeholder on the server that they can change to automate go-live, or if they're really going to delay it. If it's delayed, I hope it's for the best and we end up with a better product because of it. I'm willing to wait a couple of extra months if that means the end result is markedly improved.

[f0rge]

My problem is that the only reason I'm logging in these days is to level up Eric's Mom and grab those last 4 shards to get to level 32.

I have all the weapons I want (more than I need) and all my factions are at least level 3. There just ain't real much to do anymore.

Time for a second character I guess so I can stop being a filthy casual.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by f0rge

My problem is that the only reason I'm logging in these days is to level up Eric's Mom .

Lulz

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by f0rge

My problem is that the only reason I'm logging in these days is to level up Eric's Mom and grab those last 4 shards to get to level 32.

I have all the weapons I want (more than I need) and all my factions are at least level 3. There just ain't real much to do anymore.

Time for a second character I guess so I can stop being a filthy casual.

Only two? fuckin casuals

[53Driver]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Only two? fuckin casuals

Maybe he's been too busy with Eris's mom? lol

[n2oinferno]

Looks like House of Wolves actually is being pushed back.. Was March ever a solid release date? I can't remember now. They're saying Q2 now, so somewhere April-June.

And weapon changes galore. I'm glad people won't be using Hawkmoon as a sniper rifle anymore, I have to say.
https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Wea...News?aid=12557