Full Blown Turbo Kit Owners Topic

[Deadspool]

Nothing says put up or shut up like a real world test.


TO THE TRACK!

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

That is interesting because no FRS/BRZ running ACN 91 has ever come close to those numbers on my Mustang (at the same boost levels). With e-85, yes, but not ACN 91.

AFAIK I'm the first 86 Bill has tuned with lower compression, I'm not aware of any others that didn't have the stock pistons. I'm running lower compression because I want more power on 91. I know you guys really don't like lower compression on this car, I was reminded by that many times while I was there I don't see any better option for making the power on 91.

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Food for thought... PM's IDC (port) is 88% on his current tune (that made 270whp on Manns dyno). 15psi, 88%idc, afr's proper. So, the air/fuel mixture is proper at 15psi and the injectors are no where near the "ragged edge". Larger injectors will do nothing at this point. The car does not need more fuel. It would appear that the car needs more compression and then it could use more fuel. There could be other contributing factors.

The loss in power hinges on the new turbo being less efficient at 15psi than the old turbo, which I'm not buying. Bill told me when the car came off the dyno that he couldn't add more boost with the stock injectors, so it's still the limiting factor.

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

I for one want to see a trap speed (1/4 mile). Dynos are tools. Without a pre and post pull on the same dyno, numbers are almost meaningless. Too many variables. But... trap speed can be a very good indicator of power and has less variables.

I have every intention of taking it back to the track, but no intention of it seeing the drag strip. When test driving it after Bill was done it felt similar to what I had before (353) - I'm not calibrated enough to tell the difference in 35whp, but I know I used to be able to light the rear up in 3rd, and I no longer can

I'll stop dragging this out anymore...I have my opinions based on what other tuners are seeing with a similar setup, so my best option is to go with another tuner and come back to compare.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

That is interesting because no FRS/BRZ running ACN 91 has ever come close to those numbers on my Mustang (at the same boost levels). With e-85, yes, but not ACN 91.

Food for thought... PM's IDC (port) is 88% on his current tune (that made 270whp on Manns dyno). 15psi, 88%idc, afr's proper. So, the air/fuel mixture is proper at 15psi and the injectors are no where near the "ragged edge". Larger injectors will do nothing at this point. The car does not need more fuel. It would appear that the car needs more compression and then it could use more fuel. There could be other contributing factors.

I for one want to see a trap speed (1/4 mile). Dynos are tools. Without a pre and post pull on the same dyno, numbers are almost meaningless. Too many variables. But... trap speed can be a very good indicator of power and has less variables.

It doesn't need more compression!!! If I can make better numbers on 91 pump with a smaller turbo than he can with a gtx3076 something's a miss here. I'm not a tuner by any means but the only thing you've changed is the injectors and replaced the headgaskets, explain how he lost 113whp. Bring the car to proving grounds in brainerd with Sultan and I'll run against it.


The Frozen North

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by pmccut

AFAIK I'm the first 86 Bill has tuned with lower compression, I'm not aware of any others that didn't have the stock pistons. I'm running lower compression because I want more power on 91. I know you guys really don't like lower compression on this car, I was reminded by that many times while I was there I don't see any better option for making the power on 91.



The loss in power hinges on the new turbo being less efficient at 15psi than the old turbo, which I'm not buying. Bill told me when the car came off the dyno that he couldn't add more boost with the stock injectors, so it's still the limiting factor.



I have every intention of taking it back to the track, but no intention of it seeing the drag strip. When test driving it after Bill was done it felt similar to what I had before (353) - I'm not calibrated enough to tell the difference in 35whp, but I know I used to be able to light the rear up in 3rd, and I no longer can

I'll stop dragging this out anymore...I have my opinions based on what other tuners are seeing with a similar setup, so my best option is to go with another tuner and come back to compare.

How does lower compression equal more power at the same boost levels??? A motor is an air pump. It compresses air. Lower compression will allow higher boost with less chance of detonation but you specifically requested only 15 psi (waste gate spring pressure).

The loss in power could hinge on much more. Is the motor healthy? All we did at my shop was change head gaskets. No inspection of the block, no compression test, no leak down test.

You can perform 1/4 mile runs on my Mustang dyno. Possibly Manns dyno can do that too. Not looking for R/T, 60ft, 1/8th mile or anything else other than trap speed.

If you use another tuner, make sure the car gets measured on the same dyno (Mann). Otherwise its the same thing all over again. More pure speculation.

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

It doesn't need more compression!!! If I can make better numbers on 91 pump with a smaller turbo than he can with a gtx3076 something's a miss here. I'm not a tuner by any means but the only thing you've changed is the injectors and replaced the headgaskets, explain how he lost 113whp. Bring the car to proving grounds in brainerd with Sultan and I'll run against it.


The Frozen North

Did he lose 113whp? Taking readings on multiple dynos made by different manufactures, using different methods of measurement, in multiple states, on multiple fuels is not a scientific experiment. That is part of the problem to begin with.

ACN 91 is NOT 91 pump sold anywhere else in the USA. It is up to 15% ethanol (sugar cane based), it is oxygenated, it is low sulfur and it is mixed with all kinds of chemicals (known to the State of California to cause cancer). If you have never experienced ACN 91 you are lucky. My own LGT lost 40whp (on a stock turbo) between NYC and Cali. Only difference was the fuel. It is that bad.

Yes, we replaced the head gaskets. Because they were blown. Was something else damaged when the head gaskets blew? Why did the head gaskets blow? We did not even resurface the heads, just new gaskets. PM did not want anything else done.

The car does not need to race against anyone. But I agree, a recorded trap speed would be nice. It would be nice to have before and after trap speeds too.

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

How does lower compression equal more power at the same boost levels??? A motor is an air pump. It compresses air. Lower compression will allow higher boost with less chance of detonation but you specifically requested only 15 psi (waste gate spring pressure).

The loss in power could hinge on much more. Is the motor healthy? All we did at my shop was change head gaskets. No inspection of the block, no compression test, no leak down test.

You can perform 1/4 mile runs on my Mustang dyno. Possibly Manns dyno can do that too. Not looking for R/T, 60ft, 1/8th mile or anything else other than trap speed.

If you use another tuner, make sure the car gets measured on the same dyno (Mann). Otherwise its the same thing all over again. More pure speculation.

It looks like you didn't read what I wrote. I don't see how you could make that statement if we were reading the same post.

I did not 'specifically requested only 15 psi'. I'm tired of repeating myself. Bill and I thought it would hit those #s on 15psi, Bill was worried it would exceed my goal and they wanted to lower the WG spring, but couldn't open the EWG so decided to start with WG pressure. The EBCS is still installed AFAIK, it just wasn't used.

[Infamous Performance]

Not looking to start a pissing match, but I was present when you made the request for 15psi/spring pressure at my shop on my dyno. You were not worried (then) about max power numbers, you wanted reliability.

I was not present at Mann and all I know is what I am told about that day. I was told you made the same request. That higher boost levels were frowned upon (by the customer) due to your previuous experience with higher boost levels (blown head gasket).

Your car is the first FA20 I have seen with 9:1 compression. I believe it is the first Bill has seen too. There very well may be more power to be had from the current set up. AFAIK Bll has offered to re-visit the car and spend more time on the tune.

Using the EBCS will allow higher boost levels, which in turn will require more fuel.

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Did he lose 113whp? Taking readings on multiple dynos made by different manufactures, using different methods of measurement, in multiple states, on multiple fuels is not a scientific experiment. That is part of the problem to begin with.

ACN 91 is NOT 91 pump sold anywhere else in the USA. It is up to 15% ethanol (sugar cane based), it is oxygenated, it is low sulfur and it is mixed with all kinds of chemicals (known to the State of California to cause cancer). If you have never experienced ACN 91 you are lucky. My own LGT lost 40whp (on a stock turbo) between NYC and Cali. Only difference was the fuel. It is that bad.

Yes, we replaced the head gaskets. Because they were blown. Was something else damaged when the head gaskets blew? Why did the head gaskets blow? We did not even resurface the heads, just new gaskets. PM did not want anything else done.

The car does not need to race against anyone. But I agree, a recorded trap speed would be nice. It would be nice to have before and after trap speeds too.

The fuel difference is a good argument. I'm not sure how much worse our 91 is than the rest of the US. 15% seems high, according to what I see on CARB 10% is the max. E15 was tried elsewhere, but not allowed in CA.

You did tell me the heads were sent out for inspection, that was at least what you told me a couple times when I called for an update. You said they came back fine...

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Not looking to start a pissing match, but I was present when you made the request for 15psi/spring pressure at my shop on my dyno. You were not worried (then) about max power numbers, you wanted reliability.

What?! Why did you install the EBCS and make sure it was good to go before Bill started on the car? If I had asked for just WG pressure I don't see why you would've been hooking up the EBCS after it was already strapped to the dyno, before Bill started.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Imfamous Performance I think you're forgetting I'm not from the US. Our fuel is as bad or worse that what is in California. I'll leave it here now because you two obviously have had some miss communication going on.

The Frozen North

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

That is interesting because no FRS/BRZ running ACN 91 has ever come close to those numbers on my Mustang (at the same boost levels). With e-85, yes, but not ACN 91.

Food for thought... PM's IDC (port) is 88% on his current tune (that made 270whp on Manns dyno). 15psi, 88%idc, afr's proper. So, the air/fuel mixture is proper at 15psi and the injectors are no where near the "ragged edge". Larger injectors will do nothing at this point. The car does not need more fuel. It would appear that the car needs more compression and then it could use more fuel. There could be other contributing factors.

I for one want to see a trap speed (1/4 mile). Dynos are tools. Without a pre and post pull on the same dyno, numbers are almost meaningless. Too many variables. But... trap speed can be a very good indicator of power and has less variables.

These cars were both tuned on e75-ish, not 91. We don't even have 91 hardly anywhere in central florida, just 93 and e85. My car (the 2867r) trapped 123mph last time I went to the track, but I'm on crappy kumhos and spun the whole way (ran a 12.5) so it's hard to tell what it'd do on real tires. Also revworks' mustang is a cruel mistress. Their z06 made 530whp on a dynojet and 451 on their mustang.

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by pmccut

The fuel difference is a good argument. I'm not sure how much worse our 91 is than the rest of the US. 15% seems high, according to what I see on CARB 10% is the max. E15 was tried elsewhere, but not allowed in CA.

You did tell me the heads were sent out for inspection, that was at least what you told me a couple times when I called for an update. You said they came back fine...



What?! Why did you install the EBCS and make sure it was good to go before Bill started on the car? If I had asked for just WG pressure I don't see why you would've been hooking up the EBCS after it was already strapped to the dyno, before Bill started.

Inspected means looked at. There was no visible damage. But there was no valve cut done and there was no resurfacing of the heads. I recommended a valve cut and a resurface, as I always do. If it were my car, I would. But I must follow the customers wishes.

As I recall the EBCS was installed at the beginning of the day, prior to discovering the blown head gaskets. When you came back in (at night) and we discussed the plans/goals after determining that there was a mechanical issue the plans changed. As I stated, I was not at Mann and have no first hand knowledge of the conversations there. But if there was a concern, was it not brought to Bill or Garys attention then and there?

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Imfamous Performance I think you're forgetting I'm not from the US. Our fuel is as bad or worse that what is in California. I'll leave it here now because you two obviously have had some miss communication going on.

The Frozen North

Unfortunately I have never been able to visit our neighbors to the north. I am aware that the fuel available is far from perfect. Colder temps and denser air makes more power too though when compared to our 90+ deg days with <5% humidity. Less than 8 inches of total rain fall here last year.

.

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by jamesm

These cars were both tuned on e75-ish, not 91. We don't even have 91 hardly anywhere in central florida, just 93 and e85. My car (the 2867r) trapped 123mph last time I went to the track, but I'm on crappy kumhos and spun the whole way (ran a 12.5) so it's hard to tell what it'd do on real tires. Also revworks' mustang is a cruel mistress. Their z06 made 530whp on a dynojet and 451 on their mustang.

On our e85 (usually e80-82) we have made that power level. Sterz car is a good example of that.

We have tested my Mustang against the local Dyno Jet. Same cars on the same days. My Mustang is always 20% lower. So, if the Z06 made 451 on my dyno it would be approx 541 on the local dynojet.

[Deadspool]

I flashed the latest and greatest from Delicious tuning this morning, and Wow.

The car feels as though I unloaded 200 lbs from the trunk. Much more free feeling, Outstanding throttle response and the AFR's are steady and consistent.

From my personal stand point, Especially for distance customers such as myself, the Full blown turbo kit, with Delicious tune, is the best a guy can do for adding safe, reliable power with quality.

This is my personal experience, and I am extremely pleased with how both parties have taken care of myself and my car.