FRS FA20 turbo vs FRS lsx/2jz

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Cross brand engine swap instantly puts a car into Prepared or Modified class under SCCA rules which requires a roll bar that most people aren't going to install on a street car. Prepared class is filled with gutted and race-spec cars that are usually not street legal, and Modified class are usually even more extreme.


At these levels weight savings alone is going to essentially remove a large V8 from the equation (as you've said). If you can make the same power with a lighter car, it's going to be done.

Exactly. lol. Although I wasn't talking about autocross.

That's the whole point though. When going all out and really focusing on OVERALL PERFORMANCE, v8 swaps aren't the answer.

Of course, that's not cheap....... but this is not a cheap hobby for enthusiasts. :P

[Cross]

While I like the merits of both points being made at the end of the day it's what we want and enjoy. I like scca events but I don't really compete it's for me to improve. Street, Drag and Cruise are my areas. When I look at a car I want all the options still working, no roll bar and suspension mods with power and reliability. I hate roll bars etc I like a car to look clean and close to original not what I think is riced out.

Everyone else will be different but I will never be out to set records there is Alway's someone with more money or options. I just want to enjoy what I like and not be concerned it's going to break.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Exactly. lol. Although I wasn't talking about autocross.

That's the whole point though. When going all out and really focusing on OVERALL PERFORMANCE, v8 swaps aren't the answer.

Of course, that's not cheap....... but this is not a cheap hobby for enthusiasts. :P

Hell, one could argue under SCCA rules the 2JZ swap would be legal

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Cross

While I like the merits of both points being made at the end of the day it's what we want and enjoy. I like scca events but I don't really compete it's for me to improve. Street, Drag and Cruise are my areas. When I look at a car I want all the options still working, no room bar and suspension mods with power and reliability. I hate roll bars etc I like a car to look clean and close to original not what I think is riced out.

Everyone else will be different but I will never be out to set records there is Alway's someone with more money or options. I just want to enjoy what I like and not be concerned it's going to break.

How the fuck are roll bars rice? It's functional and serves a purpose. It's called SAFETY.

And if we're just talking about fun cars on the street, none of this is even necessary. If anything, worrying about power on the street is childish and immature. Take it to a real track and show some driving skill. Street racing on the highway is for kids. Anybody can spend more money and mash the gas pedal on the highway. Not anybody can really drive a high power car with skill....

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Hell, one could argue under SCCA rules the 2JZ swap would be legal

I love 2JZs, but I bet that shit understeers like a MFer! lol so much weight from those bigass inline 6s.

Would be extremely fun in a street car or drift car though.

Drag racing just does nothing for me.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

How the fuck are roll bars rice? It's functional and serves a purpose. It's called SAFETY.

And if we're just talking about fun cars on the street, none of this is even necessary. If anything, worrying about power on the street is childish and immature. Take it to a real track and show some driving skill. Street racing on the highway is for kids. Anybody can spend more money and mash the gas pedal on the highway. Not anybody can really drive a high power car with skill....

Your now attacking me because you did not understand what I said, nice show of maturity and superiority.

I never said roll bars were rice you misinterpreted that.

Just as I never said street racing was the best thing ever in fact I said I enjoy road course events, street and drag.

So how about you focus on comprehension and stop attempting to fabricate or spin scenarios.

I have made it clear everyone is different, you somehow took that as what I implied only what I like matters to everyone. Ignorant.

If you would like to put your money where your mouth is how about 500 road course and drags as my Vette can handle both? Or would that be unfair that I asked you to stand up to the ignorance you decided to push?

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Cross

Your now attacking me because you did not understand what I said, nice show of maturity and superiority.

I never said roll bars were rice you misinterpreted that.

Just as I never said street racing was the best thing ever in fact I said I enjoy road course events, street and drag.

So how about you focus on comprehension and stop attempting to fabricate or spin scenarios.

I have made it clear everyone is different, you somehow took that as what I implied only what I like matters to everyone. Ignorant.

If you would like to put your money where your mouth is how about 500 road course and drags as my Vette can handle both? Or would that be unfair that I asked you to stand up to the ignorance you decided to push?

"I hate roll bars etc I like a car to look clean and close to original not what I think is riced out."

[Cross]

That says I hate to bars, I like a car to look clean/ close to original not riced.

That does not imply they are rice but other things such as stance, body kits, and other items are rice to me.

What is clear is I hate roll bars I just don't like them which also hints why I'm not worried about going beyond certain points.
My Vette is a vert, putting in a roll bar for what I do with it is a look I hate. I don't need it for my purposes and I refuse to get one. For drags they have made it clear if I run 11's twice in a row I'm out. So I normally stay low 12's over 120's and leave it at that.
I just hate the look that much and I don't put myself in situations where I would need it.

However if you again misinterpreted that it's your fault for going off on a rant with all the other assumptions you attempted to imply.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Cross

That says I hate to bars, I like a car to look clean/ close to original not riced.

That does not imply they are rice but other things such as stance, body kits, and other items are rice to me.

What is clear is I hate roll bars I just don't like them which also hints why I'm not worried about going beyond certain points.

However if you again misinterpreted that it's your fault for going off on a rant with all the other assumptions you attempted to imply.

Well I hate the whole stance/hellaflush scene too. So, we have something in common there. haha. I don't hate functional aero though (key word being functional), but it doesn't serve much of a purpose on a street car, obviously.

The way you worded that just sounded like you were saying roll bars or cages are rice, which irked me a bit.

But yeah, long story short, like ALL things relating to car mods, it really depends on what you want to do with the car.

I suppose it also depends on how capable the stock engine is, which we may not really know yet when it comes to the FRS/BRZ/GT86. With the SR20DETs, they ended up making a major resurgence in popularity much later on after people figured out you could bolt the heads from NA SR20VE motors on them and get two very awesome benefits out of it: 1. A much better flowing head and 2. Variable valve lift.

Who knows what kind of options may be available for the FA20 later on down the road...

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Well I hate the whole stance/hellaflush scene too. So, we have something in common there. haha. I don't hate functional aero though (key word being functional), but it doesn't serve much of a purpose on a street car, obviously.

The way you worded that just sounded like you were saying roll bars or cages are rice, which irked me a bit.

But yeah, long story short, like ALL things relating to car mods, it really depends on what you want to do with the car.

I suppose it also depends on how capable the stock engine is, which we may not really know yet when it comes to the FRS/BRZ/GT86. With the SR20DETs, they ended up making a major resurgence in popularity much later on after people figured out you could bolt the heads from NA SR20VE motors on them and get two very awesome benefits out of it: 1. A much better flowing head and 2. Variable valve lift.

Who knows what kind of options may be available for the FA20 later on down the road...

No I completely understand there safety aspect and in my Miata and S2000 days I liked the look but with my Vette I like to drop the top and just see a Vette that has minor appearance changes and looks clean. I also like that it looks, sounds and appears to be nothing special until I get into it. The exhaust tone, the engine bay everything is clean (although I always think it could be cleaner but I have been driving it more with the FRS down) and mainly stock looking.

Glad we cleared that up though as I in no way hate safety items I think you should build the car to handle the power not just make it faster and say oh shit when you use it.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Link me to exactly what you're talking about with proof. The biggest time attack event in the world just happened over the last two days in Australia, and the highest class is Pro class. Club Sprint class allows engine swaps, but not cross-manufacturer engine swaps. So, that explains why you don't see LSx swaps there, but the Pro class does not have that same rule. These guys are spending insane amounts of money on one goal, to be the fastest around these tracks, and they are not using LSx engines. They are using light, built small displacement engines with huge turbos and setting world records.

I actually can't think of any LSx swapped cars setting records in the U.S. either. There are fast turbo/supercharged s2000s, fast turbo NSXs, etc. with records..... and there are some fast Corvettes holding records too (they tend to do well on less tight tracks though, due to size & weight), but I can't think of any light FR chassis cars with LSx stuffed into them doing well outside of drifting/drag racing. The NSX is an exception to the light, small displacement trend, because it has amazing handling and stability with the mid-engine layout.

It doesn't seem to be about restrictions. It seems to be about weight, balance, and traction.

If anybody has examples of where I am wrong, I would like to hear them though! I have considered putting an LS1 or LS3 in my 240sx several times, but decided against it since I am more into grip driving than drifting or drag.

EDIT: The top 5, by the way, were:

An Evo, an S15, an S13, an S2000, and an RX7......... all with turbo'd small displacement engines. (These cars finished way ahead of all of the cars in the Nissan GTR class, btw.)

I'm waiting for Ford to release the control pack for the ecoboost 3.5....

100's of thousands of them on the road so plenty junked F150's with them.

Twin turbo 3.5L making 365 hp and 420lb/ft dead stock....

With a tune and a turbine upgrade, you should hit over 500hp all day, more than enough in the 86 for time attack or whatever else you wanna do. Also should end up weighing about the same as a turbo'd FA20...all forged internals with a torture test done on one of the motors that is rather impressive...

Jaden

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by Cross

That says I hate to bars, I like a car to look clean/ close to original not riced.

That does not imply they are rice but other things such as stance, body kits, and other items are rice to me.

What is clear is I hate roll bars I just don't like them which also hints why I'm not worried about going beyond certain points.
My Vette is a vert, putting in a roll bar for what I do with it is a look I hate. I don't need it for my purposes and I refuse to get one. For drags they have made it clear if I run 11's twice in a row I'm out. So I normally stay low 12's over 120's and leave it at that.
I just hate the look that much and I don't put myself in situations where I would need it.

However if you again misinterpreted that it's your fault for going off on a rant with all the other assumptions you attempted to imply.

I've ran several 11's and no one has said boo to me about a a roll bar. Didn't nhra change the rules for late model cars not needing one until 10 something? I mean a bone stock zr1 will run 10's with sticky tires, are they going to tell that guy he needs a bar in his $80,000 car with a dozen airbags? I doubt it.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

I've ran several 11's and no one has said boo to me about a a roll bar. Didn't nhra change the rules for late model cars not needing one until 10 something? I mean a bone stock zr1 will run 10's with sticky tires, are they going to tell that guy he needs a bar in his $80,000 car with a dozen airbags? I doubt it.

I'm going tomorrow you can bet I will be asking. Would be nice to see what I can pull off.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I love 2JZs, but I bet that shit understeers like a MFer! lol so much weight from those bigass inline 6s.

Would be extremely fun in a street car or drift car though.

Drag racing just does nothing for me.

Doubt it's as bad as you think. It's still going to be nothing on a damn Audi...


Also forgot that under SCCA roll bar rules, the roll bar wouldn't fit under the convertible or hard top of a Miata


Dunno if they changed it since, but I remember that being an issue years ago.