OpenFlash Tuning Tech: Tales from the Dyno (Stock, Ecutek and OpenFlash tunes)

[Cessblood]

FA20club is currently E-tuning my car, so far I think Toni is doing a good job. I don't have any complaints. FA20 FTW

[hmong337]

Can you guys fuck off with the EcuTek for a bit. I would like to know more about OFT

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

Lets end this right here. You cant post your biased response and then not have enough balls to just call my name. Thats just closet jesturing.

I appreciate your effort allow shiv to beta test on your vehicle but you should have done it impartially. Especially since you sent me one log where you car was running extremely rich. your LTFT were disabled so I could dial in your maf scaling and you never submitted any following logs as a follow up. My tunes have never been advertised as a “Canned” tune and never will. I tune every vehicle specific using you datalogs so if you never submit a log it will never show full potential. Your base files primary purpose to to have you log and a RaceRom enable rom which allows for some of the extended logging parameters to be recorded such as IAM MAF voltage etc.

Your email g=here stated yourtime line and concerns 1 week before your track evet yet you never opted to send back your logs

OpenFlash and ecutek nay sayers have built everything up into the fact you cant tune your own vehicle. Well the issues is neither can 95% of the brz/frs owners. Ive always been in favor of directly tuning each car and getting rid of the whole canned tune idea. This is why my tunes are always tuned remotely for free. If you dont take advantage of that then youre honestly throwing your money away when you make a purchase from my company. It takes allot of time and effort to get everyone up and running but its the best way to guarantee results.
From there you tune is built on and edited using your tunes. I welcome the fact you and Shiv would consider me a fake tuner seeing the success ive had and the openness I offer my customers to take their cars to the dyno anytime and have me tune for no extra charge remotely. I would not give anyone that option knowingly without the confidence that my final product will perform as expected. Here is your original log showing your LTFT and to why they were disabled to start your tune.



I understand the fact that I have asked questions regarding this platform over the recent months and jumped on board makes me seem like the major obstacle to overcome but i have always said I favor open platform just not tuning on them. Lets do some math for a bit. The offering here is still a retail/profit item call it open if you may but the software was created years ago and freely distributed. OpenFlash seems to have robbed either ecutek or brzedit of def files in a couple months and now are selling a handheld that is openly sold for about 175-225 depending on volume purchased for 500.00. even brzedit doesn’t allow the reading of ecutek roms but Shiv has managed to dump a file from a competitors product. And one thing i noticed is why was the base file you had Jeff’s IAM set to 1.0 when the only file I sent him had it set to factory .7. So at this point I dont understand why you edited the file and what else you did to try to lend credibility to your dyno session. I would always be willing to compare tunes but to the extent that you are trying to push your product and hack code from other vendors im yet to be a fan. im sure some other ecutek customer in the area with either e85 or forced induction would be willing to let you pull a map to create your next tune. im sure that will save you boat loads of time.

Then the validity to the product is mixed in with thats like going on the dyno and shiv loading one file and not being allowed to revised or make changes as he did so I don’t consider that a true comparison. You file is as incomplete as it can get. And why would you think that you would have to pay a local ecutek tuner to revise your tune, when I have always offered this remote tuning service for free of charge. I have verified this information from our emails and you submitted one log which I replied with an updated file to disable your trims so I could dial in your maf scaling and afr targets and you ceased communication at that point. I can only assume that you have some reason for doing so. I don’t want you to think you were slighted in anyway or form with your purchase because we have and always will offer remote tuning. And you can verify this because all my tunes will rarely match up to another other than base settings each other value is edited throughout the tuning process just like on the dyno.

Hi guys,
Sorry it took so long to post as I had to wait for my account to become activated.

First, I'd like to point out to Toni that I never mentioned that the Ecutek flash that RehabJeff had was from FA20club.com. I left it unnamed because i didn't want to start an unnecessary flame war. That was not the purpose of Rombihood's thread nor the intention of my tuning discussion.

But now that we are where we are, I'd like to elaborate on some things but feel that doing so could certainly lead to some upset feelings. If Toni is OK will discussing aspects of tuning (with me) in this public forum, I think it would reveal useful information for the readers on this forum who are more interested with tuning tech and less interested in tuner loyalty/purchase defending.

Toni, if you are good with continuing a technical discussion now that I'm here, I'm happy to contribute what I can to what I've learned about the FA20 tuning. All I ask is that you do the same while keeping things technically on point.

Best Regards,
Shiv

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Can you guys fuck off with the EcuTek for a bit. I would like to know more about OFT

ECUTek is right in the subject! Perhaps one of the other 3 threads would be better for learning more about OFT

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi guys,
Sorry it took so long to post as I had to wait for my account to become activated.

First, I'd like to point out to Toni that I never mentioned that the Ecutek flash that RehabJeff had was from FA20club.com. I left it unnamed because i didn't want to start an unnecessary flame war. That was not the purpose of Rombihood's thread nor the intention of my tuning discussion.

But now that we are where we are, I'd like to elaborate on some things but feel that doing so could certainly lead to some upset feelings. If Toni is OK will discussing aspects of tuning (with me) in this public forum, I think it would reveal useful information for the readers on this forum who are more interested with tuning tech and less interested in tuner loyalty/purchase defending.

Toni, if you are good with continuing a technical discussion now that I'm here, I'm happy to contribute what I can to what I've learned about the FA20 tuning. All I ask is that you do the same while keeping things technically on point.

Best Regards,
Shiv

Suggest using a different thread for that purpose and opening it up to all tuners, not just you and Toni, and not just OFT and ECUTek. This thread from the very first post left everything open to an unnecessary flame war. No names were stated, but they didn't have to be. Comments along the lines of "It is up to Jeff to say where it came from. Because what I found isn't pretty." and "Any competent tuner would adjust these immediately..." made sure of that.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Yes it was the tuned map after first datalog with 3rd gear WOT to redline and 1-6th gear pull.

I Did NOT ask for throttle change or removing rev limiter

I can understand the service deteriorating as the workload becomes overwhelming and have also been on the receiving end by being ignored and having to wait 4 months for a warranty replacement. I was grateful to get it in the end after almost giving up and kissing my money goodbye.
What I find so offensive in your case is the apparent substitution of increased throttle response by 25% for the time to do a proper map from your datalog. If that's what actually happened it's chilling to imagine the extent that substitution could have been used with this product?

[Rombinhood@OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Foobar

ECUTek is right in the subject! Perhaps one of the other 3 threads would be better for learning more about OFT



Suggest using a different thread for that purpose and opening it up to all tuners, not just you and Toni, and not just OFT and ECUTek. This thread from the very first post left everything open to an unnecessary flame war. No names were stated, but they didn't have to be. Comments along the lines of "It is up to Jeff to say where it came from. Because what I found isn't pretty." and "Any competent tuner would adjust these immediately..." made sure of that.

I think if we stop caring as much about feelings and protocols and actually start getting involved in tech discussions, those who care about tuning will actually benefit. Of course everyone is welcome to post in this thread. But hopefully we can keep it technical and not get caught up with other things. There is no doubt that actual discussions of mapping choices will leave to some heated discussions. But lets at least get to that point first.

Also, this discussion is not about OpenFlash vs ecutek as they are both means to the same end. It is about tuning and applies regardless of transport device used.

[jher]

Just got my OFT install today. Notice HP & TQ gain easily. What I like about the OFT is that I can put any tune that is avaliable or when it become available and change it back to stock if I don't like it or have to take it back in to the dealership for service. As more tunes become available with different type of mods, it's easy to just download and flash your ecu to what you mod your car with. Without having to pay for it everytime you need to change or flash your ecu. I think it's a win, win for us End-Users. So far I am happy with it.

For those with heavy mods, it might be better to get your car dyno and tune. For those of us who have the basic mods for example intake and exhaust this work and doesn't hurt our pocket becauese we don't have to go pay hundred of dollars to get our car dyno and tune for these basic mods. It's already done for us. It's available to us with OFT for free of course after you purchase the tablet and it's not that expensive.

Thank you Shiv for making this available on the market.

[coyote]

Can someone who purchased an OpenFlash tablet please post the software source code that they of course provided you with?

I think it would be really useful for the community.

[FRSTEVE]

Originally Posted by coyote

Can someone who purchased an OpenFlash tablet please post the software source code that they of course provided you with?

I think it would be really useful for the community.

I think OpenFlash is exactly what it stated, open ... flash. You can stick the map you want. The map(s) are not locked. You can see the changes, use the tools that support the standard file definitions for that ROM.

The hardware that its running on is a different story. You can buy it, crack it open and see what its made of, but I don't believe anyone is necessarily entitled to what makes it tick.

The part that matters is OUR access to the ECU and OUR ability to tune it, how it talks on the ODB2 port is pretty irrelevant. The layer we really should care about is the one that enhances and enables our cars to be the best they can be.

For those who love the term "open source", a slightly closer analogy may be that just because you're running Linux doesn't entitle you to Intel's x86 source on firmware, drivers or hardware design.

I'm not sure where OpenFlash got mixed up with open source ... it seemed pretty clear to me what they were when they announced. A tool, with openness at a layer that was once closed off to most folks.

[mobybrz]

Can someone who purchased an OpenFlash tablet please post the software source code that they of course provided you with?

I think if we stop caring as much about feelings and protocols and actually start getting involved in tech discussions, those who care about tuning will actually benefit...

...then you would have titled the thread something else.

Let's make it technical, as noted in other places, care to dive into the technicalities behind how the onboard O2 sensor and a wideband sensor pre-cat, and a wideband as normally used by a tuner work work? How are they calculated, how are they interpreted? What is a safe mixture on this engine? What is a safe mixture for DI versus PI on this? You critiqued a tune for 'not touching' the exhaust cam, have you done testing that shows a benefit? Care to share the results? How many of these have you blown up? When it's on your dime we call that research(This comment goes to all tuners not just OFT,FA20,BRZEDIT,etc.) The only people who really know are Toyota and Subaru and for the time being they aren't sharing and we are all learning, tuners and consumers alike. We make observations and the observed knowledge of the community continues to grow.

Where is your source code? You call it open, post it. Otherwise, don't critique others workflow practices without any node to the fact that it may be what works for some people. Finally, as a note on your arguement for superiority. I can download the ENTIRE linux kernel line by line, that is open. Does it make it better for me? Nope, I don't write kernel code, but my ability to access and configure and understand linux is something I value. That is the equivalent to what you offer. That service is not value to my grandma. My grandma uses Apple (ECUTek). Different strokes for different folks

I have no stake in either of these vendors. What I dislike is that it seems like many of the vendors here try and make a buck by shitting on one another. Just to be clear, I am not commenting just on OFT here I am commenting on the vendor attitude in here which makes me post less and less. I'm the guy that went out, with a written SAE test procedure, and recorded about 30 runs of aero coast down. Then the front lip went on my car and I did it again. I buy data, everyone else should too.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by coyote

Can someone who purchased an OpenFlash tablet please post the software source code that they of course provided you with?

I think it would be really useful for the community.

Not sure what you are referring to as software source code?? If your talking about the map definitions... it's the same basic maps that ecutek and brzedit have. There are many, many more tables in the rom that still need to be defined but nothing is missing that is currently available in other packages.

I'm not posting what i have because i am using a beta version.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by mobybrz

...then you would have titled the thread something else.

Let's make it technical, as noted in other places, care to dive into the technicalities behind how the onboard O2 sensor and a wideband sensor pre-cat, and a wideband as normally used by a tuner work work? How are they calculated, how are they interpreted? What is a safe mixture on this engine? What is a safe mixture for DI versus PI on this? You critiqued a tune for 'not touching' the exhaust cam, have you done testing that shows a benefit? Care to share the results?

Mixture has been discussed in two of the openflash threads, including this one as has cam timing and it's benefits, and factory vs external wideband, etc.

Speaking of cam timing, here is the testing data post i made on the subject almost 7 months ago....

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by FRSTEVE

I think OpenFlash is exactly what it stated, open ... flash. You can stick the map you want. The map(s) are not locked. You can see the changes, use the tools that support the standard file definitions for that ROM.

It's clear to people who know, but they harp on the point of ECUTek being locked and they are being open. Telling them they aren't open enough is a more than fair challenge to marketing BS. When I say it, and I can only speak for me, it was said tongue in cheek.

[u/Josh]

Originally Posted by mobybrz

I'm the guy that went out, with a written SAE test procedure, and recorded about 30 runs of aero coast down. Then the front lip went on my car and I did it again. I buy data, everyone else should too.

I don't want to take this thread off topic, but I'd love to see a post about this.