Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.

[SUB-FT86]

Buggy51 i'm not saying 28k is a fair price for the base car. I was talking about a turbocharged model being over that price is reasonable. 28k is way too much for a base model FT86 in America. 23k is gorgeous...lmfao!!!

[SUB-FT86]

Also I can't believe that they tested a automatic version and loved it!!! They said it felt great and didn't feel like it needed more power. Coming from C and D that's a compliment since they despise automatics period.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Well I guess we have that in common.

No, and I'm sure most others don't see it that way either.

Originally Posted by old greg

Because the Series 1 Elise used a Rover K series engine (because it was lightweight, British and already designed). The Series 2 Elise was an small evolution of the Series 1 - a chassis tweaked to meet updated EU crash test regs, a new ECU and some restyling. The problem was that a few years after the update Lotus decided that they wanted to export the Elise to the US. The Rover K series engine wasn't even remotely emissions legal in the US, so it had to be ditched before Lotus could try selling the Elise for street use. Lotus picked the 2ZZ because it had an excellent power to weight ratio, weighed about the same as the Rover engine and fit in the existing chassis (and I'm sure Toyota gave them a sweetheart deal). They could have used any engine they wanted (see the Hennessey Venom GT as an example) the Elise chassis is modular like that, but a flat four would have required a complete redesign of the rear subframe/suspension (a big investment, for very little reward).

Correct on all points but the bold. They actually had quite a bit of convincing to do in order to get a hold of that motor. From what I understand, Honda flat out refused, Nissan came with the sweetheart deal, but ultimately Lotus chose to... request persistently, to have the Toy motor.

[Neutral_Eyes]

I like my car to be communicative and handle well, but I can't look at those numbers and not see myself picking up a V6PP Mustang for $25k. Not that I believe those numbers in the slightest. Just gotta wait another month.

[SUB-FT86]

I think the price has been blown out of proportion. The materials used to make this car isn't pricey at all. The only part of this car I suspect is pricey is the engine since 3 companies (Toy/Sub/Yam)came together for it.

[PAImportTuner]

I told you guys months ago all of this for the Subaru variant and the Toyota is not too far off but I don't know their specifics.

210 hp is a rounded up number and could of went either way TBH and this number could be proven false on an engine dyno without a glitch, the chassis/mustang/dynapack dynos are going to show 18-20% losses instead of what today's cars lose which is around 13-14%.

$27k is for the moderately optioned automatic model. Get 6spd and you got a $25,XXX lightly optioned model. I don't believe any manufacturers are offering base/blue package trims, at least Subaru is not.

Not sure but I estimate FRS(manual) should be in the $22.8-23.5k range, too much, but you have Subaru to blame because if they were lower starting Scion would priced lower as well.

2012 is already set in stone, nothing is going to change if at all until 2013 models.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by coyote

Just so as you know, the Subaru STi 6 speed gearbox has always been manufactured by Aisin and all 32bit Subaru ECUs come from Denso.

So by Subaru logic, Toyota should be claiming they engineered the STI, since those are Toyota companies...

[smbrm]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

out of curiosity, what's the typical Direct Injection fuel economy?

I mean the car is also lighter than your conventional cars as well.

Yes if it is lighter and uses both direct and indirect one would assume an improvement in fuel consumption should be available for this car compared to other cars of this size. 19/27 sounds like a worst case estimate based on cars of similar class and size. One could only hope for maybe 25/33?? Tuned for regular fuel would be great too, the tuners can always up things for premium if they want! A 2012 Honda Civic Si gets 21/31(premium fuel) on a ~2900lb car with a 2.4L engine.

They have the opportunity to make these sell like hot cakes if they get price, handling, weight, power and fuel consumption right! We always knew that, question is will they deliver?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

210 hp is a rounded up number and could of went either way TBH and this number could be proven false on an engine dyno without a glitch, the chassis/mustang/dynapack dynos are going to show 18-20% losses instead of what today's cars lose which is around 13-14%.

That doesn't even make sense.

First, dynojet/mustant/dynapack/etc will all give different readings, but the part that actually doesn't make sense is saying that they will show 18-20%, but I think you are saying that todays cars lose less?

Not really sure what difference it makes. It'll lose X% through the driveline, but different dynos will measure differently.

And go go Mustang dyno, the dyno whores heartbreaker :P

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That doesn't even make sense.

First, dynojet/mustant/dynapack/etc will all give different readings, but the part that actually doesn't make sense is saying that they will show 18-20%, but I think you are saying that todays cars lose less?

Not really sure what difference it makes. It'll lose X% through the driveline, but different dynos will measure differently.

And go go Mustang dyno, the dyno whores heartbreaker :P

Ok let's keep it strictly a Dynojet then. Today's cars loses 12-15%.

According to this article and comparing it to the Subaru's internal conference a few weeks back the number is a bit off. What I'm saying is the car will make less on the Dynojet than expected at 210hp, like 20-21% less.

[SUB-FT86]

12-15% sounds like FWD manual instead of a RWD manual car. I think RWD manual cars can lose a little percent than that like 17%-20% unless the rotating parts is lightweight.

[Akai]

On the topic of horsepower,

I would assume 200-210 hps was made with 98 octane gas or up. But since I live in America and especially here in California with all the emmision regulations, my guess for the cars in US the horsepower figure will drop a little.

The highest octane gas here is only 91! Race gas 100 octane at few 76 Unocal or other gas stations sells them at > $8 or $9 a gallon. (I know, in Europe the gas price in liters is way higher, but you do get better grades through!)

Only a couple months left to wait........

[Ryephile]

^^I think you're confusing Euro advertised RON vs. USA "anti-knock index" [R+M]/2. 98 RON is approximately 93 octane USA.

[Jordo!]

Toyota (and maybe yamaha) built the head and incorporated their DI sytem. Looks like subie built the mule and the majority of the parts. Toyota made it less ugly, made a pretty front lip kit, and stole the sti wing.

Seriously -- who cares?

Those power numbers aren't completely nutty -- allegedly you can milk considerably more power with DI by running higher timing and higher CR's than you could safely with port injection, so it's probably not wildly far off the mark if not to be taken as gospel.

The weight is also not that far fetched, although a bit disappointing -- 2800 is still very light for a modern car. Rip out the back seat and gut it, and you'll be back to the 2600 lb track car you guys want.

Price is a bit steep, but also not far off the mark of the last best estimate -- it crept up from mid to high 20's some time ago if memory serves.

Now offer a TRD blower of some sort and you've got a bad ass little car -- it may corner and brake well, but that 1/4 mile time is no better than a 10 year old Celica GT-S... charge me another 5 - 7 grand for a "does it all pretty well" option and I'll buy it.