All-New 2022 Toyota 86 Reveal Delayed

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Weight and gearing has a bit to do with it.

Yeah, weight has a LOT to do with it! 2800 lb. car and 2400 lb. car have equivalent acceleration, which one has the better-performing engine? I'm just amazed at people who think that the ND2's 181hp @ 7000rpm engine is somehow revvier than the 205hp @7000 FA20. It's not. Again, the ND2 with FA20 power/torque would hit 100 in the 1/4. And BRZ/86 with ND2 power/torque would be around 92.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The S2000 can be adjusted to -1.9 degrees front camber stock (IIRC that's what my friend's AP2 got). But the 86 can also get -1.9 degrees with camber bolts and offset top mounts, so that might have been the number you were thinking of. (Of course the 86 needs more front camber than the S2000, but that's a different story.)

I was only able to get -1.25 front camber on my AP1. Being a 49f/51r car with double-wishbones, yeah, it doesn't need *nearly* as much as the 55f/45r with front struts FT86, which is why I didn't bother with camber bolts and went directly to plates.

The ND2 Miata torque curve falls off starting around 4800 RPM. The FA20 holds steady until around 6700 RPM. There's no question the FA20 is much more of a top end motor.

'17+ FA20 actually has a rising torque curve from the dip all the way up to 6800. Yeah, much more of a top-end motor. Yet idiots still praise the Miata engine as being revvier than the FA20! They're just wrong...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The answer to this may be buried somewhere in this forum, but I wonder why Subaru chose to use a EL header on the engine. Would a UEL header have worsened the torque dip? It would have sounded so much better.

EL design gives a better high end power. Aftermarket is not ALWAYS better and sometimes they compensate loses by just removing the cat.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

It's interesting that you mention that. I switched to a 2017 OEM header (more EL design than 2013) and deleted the sound tube. You're right in that it sounds much smoother and less "agricultural" this way. It's actually one of my favorite non-ITB 4 cylinder engine sounds, especially from 5000-7600 RPM.

I did the same, because I could not go with a catless option. It is true that the new design is more EL than 2013 and a bit better from 5000-7200 RPM.

[Islindur]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The answer to this may be buried somewhere in this forum, but I wonder why Subaru chose to use a EL header on the engine. Would a UEL header have worsened the torque dip? It would have sounded so much better.

Every tunner I asked before I tunned my 86 adviced going EL over UEL as it reduces dip better and has overall more power gains. Dunno why this obsession over UELs? ACE350 is an EL too (regarded as "best header"). Most of the performance cars has EL headers.

I went with JDL UEL on mine for the sound, 189WHP on normal fuel anyway, not bad but my tunner said there was even more to gain wtih EL.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Never heard a tractor that sounds this good:

that's just a guy talking. he lost my attention before the first minute. i think the rest was his life story?

if that's UEL, it's masquerading as a school lecture.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by soundman98

that's just a guy talking. he lost my attention before the first minute. i think the rest was his life story?

if that's UEL, it's masquerading as a school lecture.

FYI, you can fast forward. Unfortunately this forum software doesn’t allow for setting start times for YouTube playback, I will add this to the text for the impatient among us.

[soundman98]

still lost my attention. he thinks i value his opinion over hearing the thing he's talking about.

it's a school lecture from a moving car.

[soundman98]

initial startup reminds me of 1990+ chrysler/mitsu v6's with lifter tick from plugged hydraulic valve adjusters, or similar year chrysler v8's with rod knock...

also sounds like the pontiac 3800 motor with a blown out exhaust. for a while there were hundreds of those around me until they all stopped running. not a club i wish to join.

[scuzzy]

For better sound bump it up to a flat 6

[Islindur]

Originally Posted by scuzzy

For better sound bump it up to a flat 6

Oh boi if they gave it H6 with ~270hp/300nm.... That would sell like hot cakes.

[nikitopo]

The H6 is an outdated engine and they would have to re-design it.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by soundman98

initial startup reminds me of 1990+ chrysler/mitsu v6's with lifter tick from plugged hydraulic valve adjusters, or similar year chrysler v8's with rod knock...

Listening to a clip of closely-recorded exhaust sound from a car sitting in a resonant garage is hardly an accurate representation of how that car will sound on the open road from the driver's seat. And that's what I am going to hear when I'm driving, what the car sounds like externally is a secondary consideration.

Re: the clip I posted earlier - the guy does like the sound of his own voice, but there are a few short segments of talk-free driving (e.g. at 2:46), and with the in-cabin recording captured via binaural in-ear microphones, it makes the recording about as realistic as you can get when played back through good headphones. Of course not all UEL headers are going to sound exactly the same.

[wbradley]

I haven't read thru the entire thread so forgive me if this is a repeat.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...py-158045.html

This could be exciting though, if there was significant effort taken to differentiate the models. It is amazing how the same grey body can move thru production with significant numbers of different parts for interior, trims, lighting, springs/dampers etc.

I have a Scion and a Subaru, so not cheering for one in particular, but it's encouraging with the possibility the two cars will be significantly different in feel when carbon copies are so much easier to make.

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I haven't read thru the entire thread so forgive me if this is a repeat.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...py-158045.html

This could be exciting though, if there was significant effort taken to differentiate the models. It is amazing how the same grey body can move thru production with significant numbers of different parts for interior, trims, lighting, springs/dampers etc.

I've purchased BMW's and toured their production facilities and it is amazing when you can truly personalize your car with options and they get it right. But it's not difficult to do when you're building a higher volume vehicle but I feel the economies of scale would not make sense for the twins.


Regarding this statement form the above article:So what are the engineers actually going to change? Well, the new 86 is supposed to have different gearing and engine tuning to make it feel like it accelerates faster. Also, they're going to change the ride in some way.

As I've previously said, why would Toyota want to have the 86 come closer to the performance of a Zupra at a discounted price?



If in fact the article has any truth and Toyota is waiting until March 2022 to debut the 86, I for one, will probably go for the BRZ as long as after a test drive and in person viewing, I like the package as a whole.