Newbie set-up for Sebring, Help!

[maj75]

My 17 year old daughter and I will be attending a DE at Sebring. Looking for suggestions for car set-up. I have done DE at Homestead and Sebring in a 2000 Boxster S. (no driver aids other than ABS) Had a blast. Melted brake sensors and chunked the Michelins. My other toy is a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo, no driver aides OR ABS.

My 6mt FR-S has a tune, so it is up 15 hp. I have Enkei RPF1 18x8/18x9.5 with Hankook Ventus V12 245/255 tires on the car at present. Also have Eibach's Sportline lowering springs. Everything else is stock.

I will be doing a brake fluid change to Motul. Suggestions for pads? I am not sure as novices we need the race pads. I also have the stock rims and tires. Should we use them for her first outing? I was considering replacing the stock tires with a better choice, but not R compounds. Suggestions? Or would we be OK with the car's current wheel/tire set-up? I don't want to destroy the Hankooks.

I also have reservations about using the electronic driver aids. I don't have any on my other car so if it was just me, they would definitely be turned off. The FRS is so responsive and gives such good feedback I would prefer that my daughter learn by feeling what the car is telling her without interference. I know there are strong feelings both ways. If it was your daughter, would that make a difference if you would turn them off for yourself?

[swift996]

I'd turn off the electronic assistance, it doesn't work how it should. In fact the M3 is the only car I've driven where it functioned as one would expect/hope it would. Plus these cars don't have enough power to get in a lot of trouble. The FRS has such good balance, it will be a great car for your daughter to learn on. It's easy to sense and feel the limit on the OEM tires.

Sebring is a rough track. I'd ask Dave-ROR (although I'm sure he will chime in) as he tracks there often. I've heard good things about Hawk pads. I'm sure you will get a lot of fade on the back/front straights and into turn 7 on the OEM pads after a few laps.

I can't wait for Saturday @ Sebring for the 12hrs!

[GTB/ZR-1]

I would absolutely NOT turn the stability control off. Granted, you won't get the raw experience, but the nannies are there to help her if she over-drives & potentially gets herself into a hairy situation.

I'm a PCA instructor & normally never use the nannies, but I was up @ Roebling a few weeks ago & used itin the rain, as I was pushing pretty hard for conditions, and it kept me from some agricultural excursions twice.

She can jettison the nannies once she gets very comfortable & confident in the car & her abilities. And to your point, if it were my daughter...

[maj75]

Katie is a good confident driver. She isn't reckless. She will also have an instructor on board. If we were driving my old C6 or another high horsepower, high speed car, I would be more inclined to use the nannies.

Why should she learn to drive two "different" cars? One with nanny and then one without. I learned and am still learning without anything other than ABS. I wouldn't disable that. General opinion seems to be that in the FRS the other "stability controls" kick in before you are even doing anything wrong.

That's why I'm also looking for car setup suggestions to maximize feel and control and minimize the need for stability control.

[GTB/ZR-1]

Uh... Okay... Sorry for the suggestion. Lol

[maj75]

What is your perspective on the FRS stability control? Do you think it improves the feel of the car or does it interfere with the feel?

I'm not saying you are wrong, just giving more information and my concerns. Feel free to disagree. Looking for imput.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by maj75

My 17 year old daughter and I will be attending a DE at Sebring. Looking for suggestions for car set-up. I have done DE at Homestead and Sebring in a 2000 Boxster S. (no driver aids other than ABS) Had a blast. Melted brake sensors and chunked the Michelins. My other toy is a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo, no driver aides OR ABS.

P 951 Which event are you going there to run? Chin later this month? Raul?

My 6mt FR-S has a tune, so it is up 15 hp. I have Enkei RPF1 18x8/18x9.5 with Hankook Ventus V12 245/255 tires on the cat at present. Also have Eibach's most aggressive lowering springs. Everything else is stock.

The sportlines? I've tracked my car at Sebring with the sportlines, and it's a bit rough for those. Is your tire overall diameter larger than stock? Same? Smaller? I was on the bumpstops in T1 and especially in T17. Creates a little bit of unpredictable response, they were good everywhere else.

I will be doing a brake fluid change to Motul. Suggestions for pads? I am not sure as novices we need the race pads. I also have the stock rims and tires. Should we use them for her first outing? I was considering replacing the stock tires with a better choice, but not R compounds. Suggestions? Or would we be OK with the car's current wheel/tire set-up? I don't want to destroy the Hankooks.

I'm always opposed to stock pads on the track. The slight cost of pads is worth the reduced risk of fade. Pad fade will reduce your sessions since you can't keep pushing the car and reduce your enjoyment of the weekend. IMO If you can swing it, run some other pads. Good hawks (IE, not blues/HPS/HP+ IMO), carbotechs, etc work fine. @JRitt sells Hawks, @CSG Mike sells Hawks (IIRC) and Carbotechs. Both of them have plenty of experience with track pads to help you select an appropriate pad configuration. That fluid will work Novices tend to drag brakes, which doesn't let them cool, etc.

I've never driven those specific Hankooks but outside of melting them I wouldn't worry too much. If you can replace the rubber on the OEM wheels with something better (AD08, RS3, RE11, Rivals, etc) then go for it but absolute maximum traction shouldn't be a concern for a track novice. Just get something good enough not to chunk into pieces from the increase in temp.

I also have reservations about using the electronic driver aids. I don't have any on my other car so if it was just me, they would definitely be turned off. The FRS is so responsive and gives such good feedback I would prefer that my daughter learn by feeling what the car is telling her without interference. I know there are strong feelings both ways. If it was your daughter, would that make a difference if you would turn them off for yourself?

I would leave them on for her first few sessions, although the instructor may have an opinion and may force that on the student (get a new instructor if that happens IMO). A buddy of mine should be there (Clinton W.) at the Chin event in a few weeks, request him through Mark, he'll be fine with no traction control after a few sessions. She needs to focus on the track first before worrying about TCS/VSC, once she's focused on learning the vehicle, then assess...

My experience with traction control on these cars isn't very good. It sucks. It's fine on the street and I don't really turn it off on the street since there's no real reason to but it's off at the track, usually entering turn 3 because it's already activated leaving pit exit since I always forget to turn it off in advance. If you leave it on you will get the impression that the car has ZERO traction and is a horrible car, take it off and you'll end up wondering what the hell it was complaining about before.

Also, unless you do the pedal dance to put the car in diag mode, you will see the slip light flash under braking, especially when there are bumps (ie everywhere at sebring). Just learn to ignore that, or put the car in diag mode which will disable TCS, VSC, and EBD/Panic Brake.

[orthojoe]

+1 on pads and fluid. I don't have first hand experience, but enough people have said the OEM brake pads don't hold up to track use that I wasn't willing to try it and went straight for track pads.

As far as traction control goes, I think that it is very intrusive and overly sensitive. At the same time, I would not turn everything off her first time out. I would just put it in VSC sport mode (which is still overly intrusive, imo) and then decide later on if she is comfortable enough to turn everything off.

[maj75]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

P 951 Which event are you going there to run? Chin later this month? Raul?



The sportlines? I've tracked my car at Sebring with the sportlines, and it's a bit rough for those. Is your tire overall diameter larger than stock? Same? Smaller? I was on the bumpstops in T1 and especially in T17. Creates a little bit of unpredictable response, they were good everywhere else.



I'm always opposed to stock pads on the track. The slight cost of pads is worth the reduced risk of fade. Pad fade will reduce your sessions since you can't keep pushing the car and reduce your enjoyment of the weekend. IMO If you can swing it, run some other pads. Good hawks (IE, not blues/HPS/HP+ IMO), carbotechs, etc work fine. @JRitt sells Hawks, @CSG Mike sells Hawks (IIRC) and Carbotechs. Both of them have plenty of experience with track pads to help you select an appropriate pad configuration. That fluid will work Novices tend to drag brakes, which doesn't let them cool, etc.

I've never driven those specific Hankooks but outside of melting them I wouldn't worry too much. If you can replace the rubber on the OEM wheels with something better (AD08, RS3, RE11, Rivals, etc) then go for it but absolute maximum traction shouldn't be a concern for a track novice. Just get something good enough not to chunk into pieces from the increase in temp.



I would leave them on for her first few sessions, although the instructor may have an opinion and may force that on the student (get a new instructor if that happens IMO). A buddy of mine should be there (Clinton W.) at the Chin event in a few weeks, request him through Mark, he'll be fine with no traction control after a few sessions. She needs to focus on the track first before worrying about TCS/VSC, once she's focused on learning the vehicle, then assess...

My experience with traction control on these cars isn't very good. It sucks. It's fine on the street and I don't really turn it off on the street since there's no real reason to but it's off at the track, usually entering turn 3 because it's already activated leaving pit exit since I always forget to turn it off in advance. If you leave it on you will get the impression that the car has ZERO traction and is a horrible car, take it off and you'll end up wondering what the hell it was complaining about before.

Also, unless you do the pedal dance to put the car in diag mode, you will see the slip light flash under braking, especially when there are bumps (ie everywhere at sebring). Just learn to ignore that, or put the car in diag mode which will disable TCS, VSC, and EBD/Panic Brake.

I love the 951. If it wasn't so perfect, I would love to run it. I was threatened, on the 944 forum, with bodily harm if I made it a track car

We will be running the Chin event on April 13.

I have the Sportline springs. The FR handled the bumps at normal speeds at parade lap speeds ( which were faster than expected). Tires are about the same as stock. I have hit the stops on some large dips on the street, though.

The brake pads will be updated. Still working out which ones will be best for a DD that sees occasional track duty.

My concern for the tires is finding something that won't be destroyed, not max traction. May just go with the Hankooks I have on and see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice on Stability Control and instructor. She will be learning the course on iRacing so it won't be totally new.

[CSG Mike]

@maj75: We have pads and fluids, and can customize a package for you. Send me a PM and we'll go over your needs so that we can get you the right stuff.

Sounds like your daughter is being groomed to become a race driver...

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by maj75

The brake pads will be updated. Still working out which ones will be best for a DD that sees occasional track duty..

Ferodo DS2500 is probably a good compromise.

[maj75]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@maj75: We have pads and fluids, and can customize a package for you. Send me a PM and we'll go over your needs so that we can get you the right stuff.

Sounds like your daughter is being groomed to become a race driver...

PM sent.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Ferodo DS2500 is probably a good compromise.

I faded those in two "ride-along pace" (2:04-2:07) laps at Buttonwillow... and that was with the AP Racing "Sprint" BBK.
@maj75: PM sent; need more info to recommend pads!

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I faded those in two "ride-along pace" (2:04-2:07) laps at Buttonwillow... and that was with the AP Racing "Sprint" BBK.
@maj75: PM sent; need more info to recommend pads!

Nevermind, then! LOL. I'll just fall back to what I usually say: There's no such thing as best of both worlds.