Who is happy the engine will be Naturally Aspirated?

[chulooz]

What are you guys rambling about? That issue you call complexity is not a bad thing; its technological advancements, and its been around for decades. And heat? Heat is rarely an issue in a properly setup system. A turbo setup will seldom feel like N/A, but often times a turbo can provide most goals without too much sacrifice. I have a feeling that the FA will end up with a turbo variant.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by dominican

I will always prefer NA over turbo, due to the simple fact that turbo cars add complexity and heat to the system, making it inherently less reliable.



In terms of power delivery, well, I've owned a number of cars, and my two most favorite were the 2000 540i 6 speed Msport and my current Honda Prelude. Those cars couldn't be more different in their power delivery though. The 540i had seemingly endless amounts of torques, even in 6th gear, just a little blip of the throttle on the highway would reward you with passing power. For spirited drives, it was fun to feel the surge of power, and putting the hammer down felt like nothing else, with 4.4 liters of Bavarian muscle to back up the sweet growl from the Eisenman exhaust. The Prelude is very different.



My prelude is modified, with a 3.5 inch headers back exhaust, no cats, type S engine, M2B4 LSD transmission, etc... It's a great car, but in order to get any real power, you have to rev the nuts off of it. You may think that's not a good thing, but I actually prefer it to the heavy stomp of the 540. See, when I'm out just cruising in top gear, I don't really want to go fast, and the car stays below 3k RPMS, where it feels more like an older accord than anything sporty. It'll just cruise and not have much poke, even if you step on it. However, if I want to punch it, all I do is drop it to third, get it into VTEC, and power through as I hear the engine roar to 7500 RPMS. It's a great feeling, and I much prefer it to the lazy, low slung feel of torquey V8 engines.

So, yes, I do prefer peaky little engines with high redlines. I know I'll enjoy the FR-S engine because it is a boxer engine, and that is my favorite engine design due to it's effective balancing and great sound. I'm glad to be finally able to get an NA tuned boxer with some gusto from a company other than Porsche

It's funny that you say the V8 is the lazy feeling one when you clearly made it out to be the energetic one of the duo. From the way you describe the prelude it more so sounds like the lazy one IMO. Any engine where you have to rev it to feel like you're going somewhere is lazy feeling to me so we both feel differently on this.

[subatoy]

I hate the argument that toyota made "the original idea was to keep this car NA" It doesn't matter what they want, what matters is what the buyer wants.
There is obviously equal amount of people that wish this car had a more powerful powertrain so why not offer engine options.

Look what happened with the 2008 WRX. Subaru made it for the masses,
it was slow and looked boring so they fixed the power and suspension with the 2009 and finally the 2010 had the wide body the WRX should've had since day one. 2008 wrx owners where totally screwed by Subaru when
they fixed the 2009.

This car will be the same thing.
This is why I'm so hesitant on buying the car when it comes out.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by subatoy

what matters is what the buyer wants.

Originally Posted by subatoy

Subaru made it for the masses.

According to your statement, you are not happy when Subaru gives the buyer what he wants.

(?)

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by subatoy

I hate the argument that toyota made "the original idea was to keep this car NA" It doesn't matter what they want, what matters is what the buyer wants.
There is obviously equal amount of people that wish this car had a more powerful powertrain so why not offer engine options.

Look what happened with the 2008 WRX. Subaru made it for the masses,
it was slow and looked boring so they fixed the power and suspension with the 2009 and finally the 2010 had the wide body the WRX should've had since day one. 2008 wrx owners where totally screwed by Subaru when
they fixed the 2009.

This car will be the same thing.
This is why I'm so hesitant on buying the car when it comes out.

Because the people wanted a light weight, balanced, affordable car.

If you have increased power, you throw away affordable, and perhaps light weight and even balance.

The market doesn't need another 270hp rwd car. We have plenty of those. The market DOESN'T have a light weight 2+2 RWD car that is also Balanced.

We're talking about the market for people who wants a lotus elise but wants a 2+2 and affordable

[Levi]

"I want a very light NA 300 PS 2 seater with front engine and RWD."

I don't think there is such a car in the market. The Cayman is mid-rear engine, the Z4 is not naturally aspirated, the 350 Z is not light.
That is why I am looking at the FT-86/BRZ, that is light, with naturally aspirated front engine and RWD. I am going to remove rear seats and get an engine kit to come close to 300 PS with going FI.

[SUB-FT86]

I find it funny that people think an optional engine will throw of the balance and make this car really expensive and overweight. All of that is wrong depending on how you look at. The car could gain 65 lbs, cost 5k more and have a slight imbalance that you probably wont feel. If the car starts at 22k then add 5k for the 2.0t, and if the weight is 2675 then add 65 lbs to it. If the car comes with a 51/49 then it will be 52/48.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I find it funny that people think an optional engine will throw of the balance and make this car really expensive and overweight. All of that is wrong depending on how you look at. The car could gain 65 lbs, cost 5k more and have a slight imbalance that you probably wont feel. If the car starts at 22k then add 5k for the 2.0t, and if the weight is 2675 then add 65 lbs to it. If the car comes with a 51/49 then it will be 52/48.

With more power you'd also need better brakes and a better suspension if you want to keep the car balanced. All of that can add weight and money.

Honestly I'd be unlikely to buy the car in turbo form simply because I don't like turbo cars on track. I like the linear powerband of NA. (that's more in response to subatoy). 300hp NA is going to take a significant increase in engine size.

[SUB-FT86]

I know that Dave. But the weight difference and price won't be too bad. Its been done before

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Levi

"I want a very light NA 300 PS 2 seater with front engine and RWD."
I don't think there is such a car in the market.

Sure there is. Ok, so it only has 260 hp, but I think its probably fast enough for most people.
[u2b]QAnd_ahGxL4[/u2b]

[djdnz]

Not me, I'd rather have FI to begin with. Upgrading a turbo car is so much easier than turbo'ing a NA car.

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I find it funny that people think an optional engine will throw of the balance and make this car really expensive and overweight. All of that is wrong depending on how you look at. The car could gain 65 lbs, cost 5k more and have a slight imbalance that you probably wont feel. If the car starts at 22k then add 5k for the 2.0t, and if the weight is 2675 then add 65 lbs to it. If the car comes with a 51/49 then it will be 52/48.

balance doesn't just have to do with weight distribution.

Balance includes weight distribution, weight on tire contact patch matched to proper suspension, chassis, and center of gravity...as well as the balance in PRICE to make all that foremention work.
IF you have TOO much power, you'll have to adjust the forementioned somehow to accomadate, as well as brakes.

They're giving us a tuners car, that means we build on top of it. It doesn't have to come out of the factory with alot of power, cause then you'll have another $30,000 2+2...which we already have.

I guess my way of modding this car will be different.
I'm wanting to go 270hp max with a linear build up 300hp will be a miracle. Anything above that the car will need work that I don't think I'm willing to put into right now to keep together. I'm very content with modding to 230-250hp. But I'm going to be making the car lightweight ...which is something that will increase performance, and decrease stress in the tires, brakes, etc.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by djdnz

Not me, I'd rather have FI to begin with. Upgrading a turbo car is so much easier than turbo'ing a NA car.

Ditto.

Toyota, please offer a blower or turbine for this car.

They made one the the tC, for Chirst's sake, and they have blowers for their trucks...

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

They're giving us a tuners car, that means we build on top of it. It doesn't have to come out of the factory with alot of power, cause then you'll have another $30,000 2+2...which we already have.

Except... tuning a DI car is a whole new can of worms.

By "tuner car" I'm worried they mean body kits and wheels...

[Matador]

I am mind fucked that an enthusiast forum for a tuner car is exasperated that the car may not be initially offered in turbo form.

What. The. Fuck?!?!?!?!?