11-19-2023, 04:44 PM | #1835 |
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The CEO is probably going to kill the company. They made 1,550 cars, which isn't a lot for the investment, but they could grow to a Tesla/normal sized manufacture someday. Tesla was in the red and so was Amazon for years before they had a return on their investment. Everyone was talking then how each Tesla sold was losing tens of thousands of dollars.
Tesla burns cash, loses more than $4,000 on every car sold (2015 article) https://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/10/tesl...-car-sold.html Lucid Air CEO might be to blame for this one: Lucid Built Just 1,550 Airs In Q3, Is Said To Be Losing $338,000 On Each EV Sold https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/lu...each-car-sold/ Lucid CEO’s $379 million annual pay draws criticism from billionaire Elon Musk: ‘Beware any company where leadership compensation is not linked to performance’ https://fortune.com/2023/09/05/lucid...-compensation/ $338,000 x 1,550 = $523,900,000.... that - $379,000,000 = $144,900,000 left, so maybe not as much as $338,000 on each car, actually. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the losses are coming from payouts to the C-suite executives. I would imagine the company has plenty of room to lower prices without actually affecting their bottom line. Oh wait, here we go for 2021. I wonder what the 2023 packages are in total for top executives... https://www.lucidinsider.com/2022/06...tive-officers/
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11-20-2023, 03:21 AM | #1836 | |
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You're comparing Q3 builds with his yearly package . Also, his 2021 package was 98.3% stock. So: -it is absolutely linked to company performance despite what Musk says -it is not cash and has no bearing on the loss per vehicle Still, this is a huge package for a company that has few actual sales. 380x times the compensation of Rivian's CEO ! |
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11-20-2023, 07:44 AM | #1837 |
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That's also the year Rivian went public so likely this is the result of his private shares gaining a monetary value.
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11-20-2023, 09:00 AM | #1838 |
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11-20-2023, 10:27 AM | #1839 |
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Basically same answer though, and as you said, tied to company business so not really any real dollar value unless he immediately cashed it out.
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11-20-2023, 02:50 PM | #1840 | |
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The company can sell their own stock instead of giving it to him, so they can use that investment revenue to balance their books, so to say, so it kind of is tied to the loses. Also, compare Musk’s stock options/awards at the same point in time in Tesla’s development/sales volume. Big difference.
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11-20-2023, 03:19 PM | #1841 |
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I think we're saying the same thing. Yes he has a huge package compared to the company's performance and this is not a good signal (though I'd be surprised if Musk said something positive about one of his competitors).
But on the other hand, he is incentivized by being paid with stock and not the main reason Lucid is losing money. I'm also not sure he can sell such a huge amount of shares every year without upsetting the market somewhat. I'm not a trader but you'd have to compare what he has with how much value is being traded every day / week / month. Likely the main issue is massive investment to bring their SUV to the market, combined with surprisingly dropping production numbers: https://insideevs.com/news/676539/lu...veries-2023q2/ |
11-20-2023, 03:55 PM | #1842 |
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Beyond the corporate compensation, Lucid to me appears to have either a production, transport or sales problem as pointed in the InsideEVs article.
As a company they are not sustainable at their current level of sales. Tesla, even in its early days, had other financial resources besides car sales (SMOG credits sales, etc) and they ramped up volume on a reasonable scale to become profitable. Lucid, as far as I can tell isn't doing any of that and is burning cash. 10,000 vehicles is nothing if it is your primary product line. Cadillac has produced @ least 13,047 LYRIQs in the 2024 model year and they are thought to be doing nothing. (That's the VIN on mine, built on 11/15)
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11-20-2023, 11:09 PM | #1843 | |
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These are new shares, not old shares. They had a value at the time they were awarded of hundreds of millions of dollars. He could cash them out or continue to invest and develop the company.
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11-20-2023, 11:42 PM | #1844 |
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Again, not really. It has real dollar value like everything in life. They could have paid him in Bitcoin, property, loafs of bread, cash, etc. It all has value. If they gave him stock options and cash, and he bought hundreds of millions in stock then it would still be the same outcome that he owns those stocks and is now invested in the company, but the point is the company is young and still fairly modest in their scale, yet they are paying huge wages/packages to their CEO disproportionate to their profit.
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11-21-2023, 01:16 AM | #1845 | ||||
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This graph starts with the Model S and not the Roadster, so that is what was sold from June of 2012 to December of 2012, which is like two quarters of 1300 cars, which is about what Lucid is doing now. More like one quarter of 900 and the second quarter of 1700, or something, but yeah, about what Lucid is doing now per quarter. Compare that to what Musk received. Stock awards and stock options are two different things. Musk was given the right to buy 5.3 million shares of the company, which at $31 would be about $150 million, so he was investing his own money into the company, meaning if he cashed them out and ran then he would be right where he started, so he was incentivized to see the company grow. Read about his ability to cash them out too. The stocks didn't vest until later, and he needed to hit milestones. Completely different scenario. Unless I am mistaken about Lucid's CEO's stock awards, he could cash out tomorrow, and he would be hundreds of millions of dollars, if not almost a billion dollars, richer. This doesn't mean he will, but if things get too hard, or if he just loses motivation, there is little skin off his back unless the stock rapidly tanks overnight, but in general, this is poor management, IMO. You don't give a CEO $500 million in stock/cash when the company is only bringing in $150 million in revenue per quarter, stock is crashing 90%, and net loses are in the billions.Link Tesla’s Elon Musk paid $70,000 in 2013 https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/25/tesl...0-in-2013.html Quote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/b...-musk-pay.html Quote:
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11-21-2023, 05:50 AM | #1846 |
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The price chart says the company is on its way out. It might need a bankruptcy to continue but institutions generally don't buy penny stocks, which is where this is heading. Btw I've learned this the hard way.
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11-21-2023, 07:53 AM | #1847 |
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@Irace86.2.0 yes, Musk accepted less in salary during those "lean" years. At that point Musk was already a billionaire so he could well afford to do that for what were, for him, passion projects. I respect him for putting his money where his passion is, but I'm not sure it's as magnanimous as you are seemingly making it out to be.
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11-21-2023, 07:55 AM | #1848 |
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Sorry meant Lucid June 21,2021. I was having a side conversation in my office at the same time with a guy thinking of purchasing a Rivian. Just more proof I can't multitask!
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