08-24-2020, 10:31 AM | #491 | |
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The Supras much like the Twins now, sold, and still sell, just fine. The manufacturers plan how many they want, build to that plan and sell them all. Cars like the Aztec, Edsel, Corvair, etc, did not sell well! Unless there were hidden fields of unsold Supras that they eventually deeply discounted or even crushed (they crushed thousands of unsold Aztecs) then sales were not an issue. The turbo Supra back then and the modern version now were and are niche cars that were built in limited numbers on purpose. They never were looking for Corolla or Camry quantities since there just was not that big a market. It is easy to tell when a car isn't selling since you will see piles of them gather dust in the back lot of dealers, they sell them for huge discounts or they start giving them away as prizes in Cracker Jack boxes.
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08-24-2020, 11:06 AM | #492 | |
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The truth is that in fighting within GM (specifically John DeLorean demanding his own way) is what killed the Corvair. Don't you just hate it when people keep pushing the myths instead of researching to find the truth? I know I do! |
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08-24-2020, 11:15 AM | #493 | |
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I loved my Corvair and it is on my short list if I ever get another classic car.
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08-25-2020, 12:24 AM | #494 | |
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I will concede that you have to look at projection numbers for specialty cars like the Supra, it was never meant to sell in big numbers. And there was a non turbo version offered. But if it met Toyotas projections why did they kill it off? And not bring it back for 20 years? I dont think its a reach to say that people stopped buying the expensive Japanese sports cars by the early 2000s. The RX-7 died, the Supra, and the 3000GT. Supra sales numbers steadily declined as the Yen weakened. Im not disagreeing with everything you said, but I dont think its a big mystery why the MKIV Supra had to go away. And its a fantastic car, one of the best GT/sports cars ever. A buyer with that money at that time probably didnt consider the Supra Turbo was in the same league with the 911 Turbo, or even Dodge Viper or Corvette. I will take the Supra all day every day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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08-25-2020, 02:50 AM | #495 |
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regarding the MK4 Supra, would lack of interest be a better word? in 97 Toyota drop the MSRP, but that still didnt help sales. the car was pulled from the European market in 96, and US/Canada in 98, and only continued on in Japan until 02.
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08-25-2020, 04:59 AM | #496 | |
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There was also a global recession in the early 90s and even though things had "recovered" by 95 it was too late to save some of the niche models that were planned to be axed. Hindsight is 20/20 so looking back now and saying but things were fine by 1995" is not the same as sitting there in 1992 and deciding what cars to keep making when everybody is broke. There is always a much bigger picture than just how good a car was or wasn't.
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08-25-2020, 10:22 AM | #497 | |
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supposedly a MK4 successor was planned in 97, but was quickly scrapped.
https://jalopnik.com/toyota-s-perfor...pra-1829125702 Quote:
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08-25-2020, 10:55 AM | #498 |
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^^In retrospect that was probably a blessing in disguise. Did anyone really wanted a reskin version of this with a Supra badge?
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08-25-2020, 01:44 PM | #499 | |
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"The AP2 is a better car, but the AP1 is a better S2000" I wonder if the FA24 will bring us to a similar dilemma. Although I did watch a Youtube video that suggested the FA24 is a real gem (supposedly building in all the lessons learned from the FA20, including having beehive springs and other enhancements which should allow it to rev fairly high) Colour me cautiously-optimistic! |
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08-25-2020, 04:09 PM | #500 | |
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The difference is that the high RPM is what made the F20 engine seem more like a "race" engine and that is what has always given B/F/K series engines their character. The FA20 hasn't got that so by gaining more torque I can't see that it would lose anything. I really wish that Subaru could combine AVCS and AVLS as that would certainly give the engine more flair if that could aid unleashing some more RPM....... I think I still miss VTEC.
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08-25-2020, 06:36 PM | #501 | |
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I wouldnt say it means nothing, heritage is important. And perceptions of a brand stick with people. I agree its MUCH easier looking back and playing Toyota CEO. Its a shame what happened to some of the really cool cars of the 90s, but global economics influence every industry. And I suppose the RX7 lived on in the RX8, and we did get a new Supra, eventually. Can you imagine if someone told you 20 years ago the next Supra would be a joint collaboration of Toyota and BMW?! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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08-25-2020, 06:44 PM | #502 | |
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Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!
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Ive thought about that, how having a different engine or forced induction could change the character of the 86/BRZ. I think both Toyota and Subaru will be careful to maintain the balance of the car. If they decide to go with forced induction (unlikely) at least we know its possible to tune a modern engine to have very little turbo lag. More likely it will stay NA with a bump in displacement and torque. I wouldnt say the FA20 has a screaming top end anyway. I do like to rev it out and think its a fun engine past 4500 rpm. Oh and I wanted to add, I dont agree the AP2 S2000 is a worse S2000. Ive driven both and I think both have their advantages. The redline on the AP1 is hilarious, it really does feel like an F1 car. Or what I imagine it to feel like. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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08-25-2020, 08:05 PM | #503 | |
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Twenty years ago I would have said "who cares?" and meant it. You could pick Supras up for dirt cheap 20 years ago. Then that damned movie came out and it became a legend to people that have never even sat in one much less drove it. I would not have been surprised if I had cared though because I had already owned and wore out a joint venture car. Joint ventures are not new and a project with BMW is not as crazy as some would think.
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08-26-2020, 02:30 AM | #504 | |
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Guess we'll see what they do with the engine. |
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