(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by gg1978

otherwise the FA20 has an exceptionally flat 150lb/foot across the bulk of it's usable revband.. Quite impressive if you ask me.

This is a very under appreciated characteristic of the FA20. The torque curve from 5k-6.5k is absolutely flat. Flatter than on a Porsche or NA BMW. I’ve only seen such flat torque curves on a few NA Benzes. That’s the main reason it pulls so hard from 5-7k.

[reeves]

I'm sold on the next 86 regardless of power output.
I just hope it doesn't have Toyota's cloud-connected "Mobility Services Platform" (MSPF).

Per Toyota: "The MSPF and it's application programming interfaces (API) will enable Toyota to collect data from connected vehicles and apply it towards vehicle design and development, .... , and new corporate and consumer services such as .... driving behavior-based insurance."

In the video link, the guy speculates that it'll be monitoring your G forces, time it takes to step on your pedal at a redlight, car speed vs posted speed limit, etc..

Wouldn't be shocked if insurance companies can "pay" to get a hold of this info.. just so they can jack up your insurance rates. Because, let's be honest, most of us tend to drive our 86's a bit harder than the 'average' Toyota driver.

Just another reason to stick with the gen1 86 if Toyota does put this on the 2nd gen.

[beltax90]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

This is a very under appreciated characteristic of the FA20. The torque curve from 5k-6.5k is absolutely flat. Flatter than on a Porsche or NA BMW. I’ve only seen such flat torque curves on a few NA Benzes. That’s the main reason it pulls so hard from 5-7k.

really does put the flat in flat 4 engine

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by reeves

I'm sold on the next 86 regardless of power output.
I just hope it doesn't have Toyota's cloud-connected "Mobility Services Platform" (MSPF).

Per Toyota: "The MSPF and it's application programming interfaces (API) will enable Toyota to collect data from connected vehicles and apply it towards vehicle design and development, .... , and new corporate and consumer services such as .... driving behavior-based insurance."

In the video link, the guy speculates that it'll be monitoring your G forces, time it takes to step on your pedal at a redlight, car speed vs posted speed limit, etc..

Wouldn't be shocked if insurance companies can "pay" to get a hold of this info.. just so they can jack up your insurance rates. Because, let's be honest, most of us tend to drive our 86's a bit harder than the 'average' Toyota driver.

Just another reason to stick with the gen1 86 if Toyota does put this on the 2nd gen.

They can have the info all they want but they can't use it unless your policy states they will. At least that is the law in Canada. So far.

[fitcious]

Nah it’s not gonna have that


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fitcious

Nah it’s not gonna have that


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Already collects all that data. Who knows may be already transmitting it as well.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by reeves

I'm sold on the next 86 regardless of power output.
I just hope it doesn't have Toyota's cloud-connected "Mobility Services Platform" (MSPF).

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They can have the info all they want but they can't use it unless your policy states they will. At least that is the law in Canada. So far.

Here's the description straight from Toyota. Yea, not something I want. I guess I'm going to have to go back to driving cars from the 60's and 70's.

I particularly like this part:

Originally Posted by Toyota Overlords

Your Responsibilities
Your responsibilities include: (1) informing passengers and drivers of your vehicle that data is collected and used by us, and (2) notifying us of a sale or transfer of your vehicle. If you do not notify us of a sale or transfer, we may continue to send data about the vehicle to the subscriber’s Personal Information currently on file, and we are not responsible for any privacy related damages you suffer.

[dragoontwo]

Will they differentiate between street and track?

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Here's the description straight from Toyota. Yea, not something I want. I guess I'm going to have to go back to driving cars from the 60's and 70's.

I particularly like this part:

When we bought my wife's car it had this thing as a "feature". We discussed our concerns with the sales guy and he opted us out of the program. At least he didn't set us up in the system to have the "feature" activated.

What the car is actually doing and may or may not still be sending back to toyota I have no idea.

I wonder what kind of system is in place to even report that data back to toyota. Seems like it would be immensely expensive to equip every vehicle with a cellular communication device and keep it active without payment/involvement with the vehicles owner.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by reeves

I'm sold on the next 86 regardless of power output.
I just hope it doesn't have Toyota's cloud-connected "Mobility Services Platform" (MSPF).

Per Toyota: "The MSPF and it's application programming interfaces (API) will enable Toyota to collect data from connected vehicles and apply it towards vehicle design and development, .... , and new corporate and consumer services such as .... driving behavior-based insurance."

In the video link, the guy speculates that it'll be monitoring your G forces, time it takes to step on your pedal at a redlight, car speed vs posted speed limit, etc..

Wouldn't be shocked if insurance companies can "pay" to get a hold of this info.. just so they can jack up your insurance rates. Because, let's be honest, most of us tend to drive our 86's a bit harder than the 'average' Toyota driver.

Just another reason to stick with the gen1 86 if Toyota does put this on the 2nd gen.

I’m not sure about that, I probably drive less aggressively than the soccer mom in her Sienna, always late for the next activity. LOL

But kidding aside, I don’t want that type of information being collected. Unfortunately that is the world we are moving towards.


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[new2subaru]

Imagine them analyzing your last track day

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by JesseG

The FA20 does really pull hard in that range, it feels like a different engine.

Well, “pulls hard” is always relative, it is still limited by its low torque max of 212Nm/156 lb-ft (post-2017s). Remember, HP = (Torque in lb-ft x RPM) ÷ 5252. It may feel like it pulls harder than it really does at high RPMs for two reasons. 1) you have just exited the infamous torque dip, so the non-linear increase toward max torque (and thus renewed surge of power) feels more special than it would in an engine with a flatter torque curve and thus more linear increase in power through the rev range. 2) the twins are relatively light for modern cars, so they do OK with what is in reality not much power, since it is power to weight that really matters for performance.

Unfortunately, the NA FA20 does not pull hard at all in comparison to competitor NA sportscar engines such as the VQ VHR, the Coyote, the LS etc. How could it, it is much lower displacement and less cylinders, with no turbo. Heck, even the MX-5’s newly uprated 2.0 feels as though it pulls harder through the mid range, with a more linear torque curve, even though ultimately it has a bit less top end power.

Not bagging the FA20, its a workhorse that when left unmolested and not subject to valve spring recall failures, is reliable and economical enough and supports the twins’ real wow factor, the handling. But I personally never could gel with it, the engine remained the weakest link and most disappointing aspect of my 86 owning experience.

And my FR-S puts a smile on my face every time I drive.

That’s all that really matters, what you feel like when you drive it. After all, some folk still thoroughly enjoy driving old classic British roadsters around with just 100HP. Performance and fun are not always synonomous.

I still feel like they had to hold some things back to meet a price point. Like all things in life I guess.

Of course! There is a reason Porsche flat engines (especially the sixes) perform so well and sound as amazing as they do, and it requires the kind of engineering know how and development $$$ that would not be justified in a low volume budget sportscar from Toyota and Subaru. Toyobaru did OK with what they had to work with, and I’d say their efforts paid off insofar as the twins are much more as a sportscar experience than the sum of their humble parts. I just can’t share the affection for the FA20, sorry.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by WildCard600

I wonder what kind of system is in place to even report that data back to toyota. Seems like it would be immensely expensive to equip every vehicle with a cellular communication device and keep it active without payment/involvement with the vehicles owner.

You mean like OnStar? GM started in 1997 and now it’s included as standard in all their cars since ~2010? A similar system has been standard in every BMW since 2009. Every single luxury brand has an SOS function like OnStar. A SIM card is dirt cheap. The data they harvest is more than worth the cell connection.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Imagine them analyzing your last track day

You get a random emails saying "DUDE you are going into turn 3 a bit fast and letting up way too soon on the second hairpin"