R i.p. Kobe Bryant

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The only details I've seen that make me cringe is that they were flying in weather where the local police choppers had all been grounded due to weather. Sounds like they may have gotten bitten by "get there-itis" to some extent.



So, at least initially, it appears to be a case of "pilot flying into unacceptable conditions".



Regardless, it is tragic no matter the vehicle that resulted in the loss of life, or who's life it was that was lost. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of their families.

Yeah I think they had an SVFR clearance...


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[p1l0t]

Looks like they did quite a bit of circling (not at the time of the crash but midflight) not sure if that was intended or what. Also is 1500ft/min an aggressive climb for a helicopter?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N72EX

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[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Looks like they did quite a bit of circling (not at the time of the crash but midflight) not sure if that was intended or what. Also is 1500ft/min an aggressive climb for a helicopter?

The S76 has a max climb rate of 1,625 ft/min from what I could find so depending on weight it appears to be within spec. Not sure how much weight/forward speed/etc plays into that in a helicopter though.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Looks like they did quite a bit of circling (not at the time of the crash but midflight) not sure if that was intended or what. Also is 1500ft/min an aggressive climb for a helicopter?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N72EX

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In some article I read they where told to hold and wait for instruction by ATC. I don't remember why.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

In some article I read they where told to hold and wait for instruction by ATC. I don't remember why.

It does look like they flew over some airports, maybe they had to wait to cross for traffic. Is it cheaper/easier to fly a circle than hover in a helo?

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[soundman98]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Looks like they did quite a bit of circling (not at the time of the crash but midflight) not sure if that was intended or what. Also is 1500ft/min an aggressive climb for a helicopter?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N72EX

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i thought so as well, then i found this video last night of the path with overlaid audio

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0pQfgi9ZqU[/ame]

they were in a holding pattern at that time.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i thought so as well, then i found this video last night of the path with overlaid audio

they were in a holding pattern at that time.

Yeah holding for IFR guys going missed..

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[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

It does look like they flew over some airports, maybe they had to wait to cross for traffic. Is it cheaper/easier to fly a circle than hover in a helo?

From my full two hours of rotor experience 15 years ago....

It takes a lots more fuel to hover a helicopter than does forward flight.

Also, hovering is an art, not a science. It's one of those things that when you are learning its impossible to do, then the next minute, oh now I get it. For an experienced pilot it shouldn't be a problem unless the weather also included a lot of choppy wind that was blowing them around. In general though, I think hovering is not something that is done by default.

[Dadhawk]

Some additional info. Looks like they missed clearing the hill by 30ft, although that would have not guaranteed they were out of danger.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news...tsb-statement/

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Some additional info. Looks like they missed clearing the hill by 30ft, although that would have not guaranteed they were out of danger.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news...tsb-statement/

Sounds like it was a loss of control more than a controlled flight into terrain.

(Despite the headline)

National Transportation Safety Board investigator Bill English made a point during a press conference the next day to explain that, while clearing that ridge might have provided a few precious seconds to the pilot as he apparently struggled to regain control of the machine, there were other nearby hills that certainly would have posed additional threats.*

- from Flying magazine

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[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

It does look like they flew over some airports, maybe they had to wait to cross for traffic. Is it cheaper/easier to fly a circle than hover in a helo?

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Hovering out of ground effect is not about fuel consumption...it's about safety. Google "Vortex Ring State" for an explanation.

I'm no expert, but as a retired Navy helicopter pilot with 4K+ rotary wing flight hours, I do know a little about rotary wing flight.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by AJ32162

Hovering out of ground effect is not about fuel consumption...it's about safety. Google "Vortex Ring State" for an explanation.

I'm no expert, but as a retired Navy helicopter pilot with 4K+ rotary wing flight hours, I do know a little about rotary wing flight.

Well at least in the jet I don't have to worry about my own wake causing a stall or an unusual attitude... I guess that's a good reason not to hover outside of ground effect if you can avoid it.

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[soundman98]

Originally Posted by AJ32162

Hovering out of ground effect is not about fuel consumption...it's about safety. Google "Vortex Ring State" for an explanation.

I'm no expert, but as a retired Navy helicopter pilot with 4K+ rotary wing flight hours, I do know a little about rotary wing flight.

otherwise known as 'death spiral'.

i learned of this condition with an rc helicopter-- a blade mcpx. due to it's specific design, it's quite easy to put into that situation. as a toy, it's very interesting to play with the result of the effect. but in reality, i hope to never hear anything more about it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by AJ32162

I'm no expert, but as a retired Navy helicopter pilot with 4K+ rotary wing flight hours, I do know a little about rotary wing flight.

I'd say that qualifies you as the expert here. Thanks for your practical experience and knowledge on this. Makes more sense than my guesswork.