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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING] |
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08-27-2018, 10:07 PM | #85 | |
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Part of the fun of the 4C is its exclusivity. If you buy a MX-5 you're not making a bad choice by any means, but you'll see cars just like yours every day. I like driving something less common so it appeals to me. Especially lately when I see a poorly modified FR-S/BRZ drive by (of which there are several), it makes me wish I could jump into something else so as not to be associated with those cars. For those who haven't driven one, you've got to. It's a hoot! I would not want to daily drive it, although some masochists do. Been there done that with enough cars. The engine could really use another thousand revs to feel more racecar-like (my 4.2L V8 RS6 revved to 6,500 rpm for chrissake! Interestingly, both cars have the same 0-60 times) but it gives you a great shove and the sounds are a lot of fun. Certainly, another car in the segment to consider heavily is the Cayman S. I personally never cared for the styling of them and would just as soon buy an older 911 in the same price bracket before I'd get a Cayman, but they are excellent cars to drive (wheeled a 2015 S PDK around Thompson Motor Speedway for a half dozen laps or so) and more well-rounded.
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08-27-2018, 11:03 PM | #86 | |
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The 220hp Elise is 410 lbs lighter. Neither of them need a carbon tub to get lower than the 4C, both cheaper (the Elise albeit barely) too. The 4C is an excersise in superatives for the sake of spec sheet bragging. Which is fine seeing the target market Fiat was going for with the car, but the whole isn't more than the sum of its parts, and as an engineer I cannot like it because of the sheer inadequacy of it's design optimization. At its size, cost, and level of spartan-ness it should beat the Elise handily. Instead a small English company shows all the might of the fiat group what they can build for 58grand is significantly faster than the Italians can do for 63k. Hell even the 190 HP Elise gets damn close and is 15 grand cheaper than the Alfa. Yes the Alfa is fast and it's like an assault on your senses on the track, but so is everything else with close to those power/weight and grip/weight ratios. The 4C sounds amazing on paper, but once you dig deeper you realize that's all it was meant to do. It's let down by more weight than it should be carrying, a crap gearbox, and an engine that's not very well suited for a sports car. FCA has shown plenty of times that since Ferrari left they kinda phone in the engineering. Like how they bragged they desiged the Giulia in 2.5 years. That's not a good thing. That means you rushed it and you'll pay for that later when it proves to be unreliable. Oh wait. That's exactly what happened. |
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08-28-2018, 01:43 AM | #87 | |
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The Elise hasn't been on sale in the US since 2011, and *if* you can find an S or S 240 they are likely to cost more than a used 4C (no doubt a testament to their desirability, but still out of my budget). I drove the standard Elise and at the time it didn't feel monumentally faster than my 170hp 20v 4AG-swapped MR2. The 2ZZ is such a peaky engine; I didn't really enjoy it (tried a Matrix XR-S with the same engine, same result), though I'm sure it would be adequate at the track if you stay in the powerband. I also really don't fit in an Elise. My line of sight is pretty much parallel with the top of the windshield. So there's that.
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08-28-2018, 06:41 AM | #88 | |||
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Why do you feel bad if other people are modifying their car? First of all, I don't think the majority of FS-S/BRZ's are modified. Maybe this forum gives a wrong perception of reality. Additionally, there is the option to install TRD or STI parts and stay within the factory specifications. Of course, there will always be exceptions of the rule and we'll always have some poorly modified or even not poorly modified but certainly outside of the factory specs and quality standards. |
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08-28-2018, 10:03 AM | #89 |
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Regarding weight, 4C chassis is heavier than the Miata and Elise, but also a good bit stiffer.
There are people who like it, and people who don't. People who get it, people who value other things. It's all good - most of this 4C debate is subjective and headed WAY off topic. |
08-28-2018, 11:00 AM | #90 |
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08-28-2018, 11:34 AM | #91 | |
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Lotus Elise ranges from 10k-11k nm/degree Miata NC: 8800 nm/dgree Miata NA & NB: 6000 nm/degree Alfa 4C: 14,500 nm/degree And you know what, I confused NC with the latest model (ND). Couldn't find the rigidity numbers on that either, apologize for that. Probably better than 8800, but kind of doubt they've reached the 4C's numbers (I could be wrong though). From various reading the NC was a big jump in rigidity for the Miatas, the ND less so (over the NC), but that's all anecdotal and take my word with a grain of salt |
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08-28-2018, 11:47 AM | #92 |
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What is the torsional rigidity of the twin? I cant find a number.
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08-28-2018, 12:12 PM | #93 | |
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08-28-2018, 12:33 PM | #94 |
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08-28-2018, 12:52 PM | #95 |
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08-28-2018, 01:40 PM | #96 |
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Coupe #'s are a lot higher, those numbers are all for the open top versions
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08-28-2018, 01:49 PM | #97 | |
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Yup, coupes are inherently much stiffer. The RX8 is 30000nm/degree, and that uses the same platform as the NC Miata, which didn't even hit 10000nm/degree |
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08-28-2018, 02:27 PM | #98 |
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