Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[armstrom]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Yeah im looking for more low end torque. A pd blower will out pull most turbos until about 4500rpm which is where most people drive daily. Don't get me wrong the rush of 500+whp is fun but around town it's a dogs breakfast. I know boost builds over rpm but it builds it miles quicker than any other form of boost. I just don't wanna sell all my shit then be limited to like 350hp.

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I just don't think you'll be able to make big power with this kit and your low compression pistons. Though it would be an interesting (if expensive!) experiment
-Matt

[armstrom]

I think your best option might be to just swap your turbo over to a GTX2867r turbo. That should spool much faster and still be able to make upwards of 400RWHP.
-Matt

[CSG Mike]

I wouldn't discount the TVS1320. 500whp on E85 and 400whp on 93 has been proven on other platforms.

[xwd]

I'm hoping to make 425-450WHP on E85-R using the TRD S/C, which also has the TVS1320. It has a larger throttle body, snout, and plenum than the Edelbrock/Harrop kits so the airflow is probably a little better. The heads I'm using also have larger valves and some porting done, engine is still 12.5:1.

The FA20 isn't a K series but if you can improve things in the right area it's going to be doable. Making a lot of power on 91 isn't going to happen and I wouldn't be looking at trying to make much on 93 either unless you drop the C/R. Depends what you are after.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Lol no it's not a k. On a k they're making 450-500 out of the tvs900

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[PhyrraM]

This kit impresses me. As I'm sure many others are too, I'm flip-flopping between the Harrop and the Edelbrock.

I have a few Harrop specific questions, but first the basics:

2017 BRZ 6 speed manual, Performance Pack. Bought 7-17-17, about 700 miles so far.

Daily driver, weekend canyon cruiser, maybe a bit of autocross.
Track days are very unlikely, and if so they would be 9/10ths, A/C on, cruising fun-days.
The only planned mods (for now) are sticky tires, brake pads and fluid, and a supercharger. The Performance Pack seems really well sorted as-is. (Outside of the wheel gap)
Power goals are "raise the fun factor on my daily commute, but keep it safe and reliable". The second goal is "don't destroy its ability to be a fairly comfortable daily driver". I don't want something with a tricky clutch, rock hard ride, terrible MPGs, or hard to find fuel.
Hoping to keep gas mileage close to stock. I've heard good tunes can actually make it go up a tad?
E85 is available in my town, but want to keep California 91 an option. A quick lesson (or link) on how Flex fuel kits work would be appreciated.

My questions are mostly about '17 comparability.

Based on Johan's install, it seems that the alternator interference problems the Edelbrock has on the '17s are not an issue on the Harrop. Comments?

How much lower is the rotor pack (the bulk of the weight?) compared to the Edelbrock? It seems to be about 2-3". I might have missed in the thread, but I don't see a "net weight added" number for the Harrop. I know the weight of either kit will effect the balance, I'm just trying to minimize it's impact.

It seems that the '17s have a revised airbox. The Harrop re-uses the inlet side of the airbox. Has this been tested? If needed, will a '13-'16 airbox inlet side bolt up to the '17 core support? Johan's thread didn't mention anything, but his automatic car came with the old plastic intake manifold (no idea yet about the airbox).

I had planned on using the OEM FA20DIT oil cooler. It seems ideal for me. I don't plan at-the-limit performance and the water supply that it uses is freed up because the Harrop bypasses the throttle body coolant loop. The Harrop instructions place a hose under the A/C compressor which is the same place that the FA20DIT cooler hoses usually go. Does it appear to be enough room for both?

Removing a harness connector from it's bracket and zip-tieing it to a harness wouldn't be my first choice. Am I being paranoid? Can the bracket be modified to keep the connector attached, but relocated?

The Edelbrock has a very fixed price of about $5300 shipped, including the basic tune (cable, license) to get you driving safely. The Harrop literature and vendor websites are confusing. What is the price shipped to my door, with a equivalently safe (albeit basic) tune (cable/license) for California 91 gas? As a side note, I usually support my local vendors and will try to this time as well, but sales tax and shipping will be nothing to sneeze at - unless I'm not seeing something obvious.

I don't mind paying more for the perceived advantages of the Harrop kit, I just don't want shipping and tuning costs to get out of control because I may be missing something. The "fixed, no-surprises" price of the Edelbrock is appealing.

Thanks. I plan on spending the next 10 years with the car and will only choose what I believe are the 'right' parts.

[matchamochi]

Originally Posted by PhyrraM

2017 BRZ 5-speed, Performance Pack. Bought 7-17-17, about 700 miles so far.

That's some performance package! Dropped 6th gear! 2017 bought on 7-17-17 with 700 miles. All a coincidence?? You feeling lucky?

ahaha sorry feeling silly on sunday. wish I had real input for you.

[PhyrraM]

Yes. All coincidence. Started the test drive with 6 miles and ended it with 9. So I even drove it through the magic 7 miles on the test drive.

By calling it a 5 speed I must be showing my age.... This is actually my first 6 speed manual. All 5 speeds or less up to this point. I even had a 4 speed manual Subaru Brat back in the day.

However, I did once have a car (not truck) with 8 forward speeds (and 2 reverse) with factory turbo. Bonus old guy points if someone can name it.

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[armstrom]

First gen Mitsubishi colt with a 1.4t and the super shift 4 speed?

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[PhyrraM]

Originally Posted by armstrom

First gen Mitsubishi colt with a 1.4t and the super shift 4 speed?

As close as your gonna get.

In the states the first gen Colt/Mirage Turbo was sold as a Dodge/Plymouth Colt with the 1.6 G32B w/throttle body injection on the turbo. They called the transmission a Twin Stick here. It was a one year job ('84) - the last one for the Gen one.

[johan]

Originally Posted by PhyrraM

This kit impresses me. As I'm sure many others are too, I'm flip-flopping between the Harrop and the Edelbrock.

I have a few Harrop specific questions, but first the basics:

2017 BRZ 6 speed manual, Performance Pack. Bought 7-17-17, about 700 miles so far.

Daily driver, weekend canyon cruiser, maybe a bit of autocross.
Track days are very unlikely, and if so they would be 9/10ths, A/C on, cruising fun-days.
The only planned mods (for now) are sticky tires, brake pads and fluid, and a supercharger. The Performance Pack seems really well sorted as-is. (Outside of the wheel gap)
Power goals are "raise the fun factor on my daily commute, but keep it safe and reliable". The second goal is "don't destroy its ability to be a fairly comfortable daily driver". I don't want something with a tricky clutch, rock hard ride, terrible MPGs, or hard to find fuel.
Hoping to keep gas mileage close to stock. I've heard good tunes can actually make it go up a tad?
E85 is available in my town, but want to keep California 91 an option. A quick lesson (or link) on how Flex fuel kits work would be appreciated.

My questions are mostly about '17 comparability.

Based on Johan's install, it seems that the alternator interference problems the Edelbrock has on the '17s are not an issue on the Harrop. Comments?

How much lower is the rotor pack (the bulk of the weight?) compared to the Edelbrock? It seems to be about 2-3". I might have missed in the thread, but I don't see a "net weight added" number for the Harrop. I know the weight of either kit will effect the balance, I'm just trying to minimize it's impact.

It seems that the '17s have a revised airbox. The Harrop re-uses the inlet side of the airbox. Has this been tested? If needed, will a '13-'16 airbox inlet side bolt up to the '17 core support? Johan's thread didn't mention anything, but his automatic car came with the old plastic intake manifold (no idea yet about the airbox).

I had planned on using the OEM FA20DIT oil cooler. It seems ideal for me. I don't plan at-the-limit performance and the water supply that it uses is freed up because the Harrop bypasses the throttle body coolant loop. The Harrop instructions place a hose under the A/C compressor which is the same place that the FA20DIT cooler hoses usually go. Does it appear to be enough room for both?

Removing a harness connector from it's bracket and zip-tieing it to a harness wouldn't be my first choice. Am I being paranoid? Can the bracket be modified to keep the connector attached, but relocated?

The Edelbrock has a very fixed price of about $5300 shipped, including the basic tune (cable, license) to get you driving safely. The Harrop literature and vendor websites are confusing. What is the price shipped to my door, with a equivalently safe (albeit basic) tune (cable/license) for California 91 gas? As a side note, I usually support my local vendors and will try to this time as well, but sales tax and shipping will be nothing to sneeze at - unless I'm not seeing something obvious.

I don't mind paying more for the perceived advantages of the Harrop kit, I just don't want shipping and tuning costs to get out of control because I may be missing something. The "fixed, no-surprises" price of the Edelbrock is appealing.

Thanks. I plan on spending the next 10 years with the car and will only choose what I believe are the 'right' parts.

Just saw this, I can try to answer your questions really quick.

I think this blower sits quite a bit lower, considering you can fit most strut bars over it, and the Edelbrock is a "nope" for most.

If I do this install again on a 17 (likely, a buddy of mine wants this kit), the only thing I would do is file just a smidge of the aluminum off the blower housing right where the alternator wire is. While it's functional, it's basically "touching", which makes me generally uncomfortable. I've not had any issues, but I'd certainly feel a lot better if there was just a millimeter of room. If you had the kit, the area I'm talking about is obvious, and it's an uncoated, machined surface already so you wouldn't be hurting the powder coat. With the right care, it could almost look like it was meant to be that way.

Regarding the airbox. Yes, a 13-16 airbox works great on a '17 engine. The same buddy of mine that might do a Harrop is currently running a complete '13 airbox on his '17 PP to make room for his Perrin oil cooler. The only catch (while N/A) is that you need the entire airbox including the rubber portion that connects to the throttle body. Of course this would be irrelevant on the Harrop setup since it replaces all of that and only uses the portion that mounts to the chassis at the core support. So, yes, if you just acquire that piece, you'll be in business.

I can't comment on clearance for the DIT cooler. I'd consider that a maybe. I will say this, on the street - you really don't need it. I didn't bother until I was ready to hit the track. The highest I ever saw was 240-250F on the street.

The harness wires and all that seem kinda sketchy while you're trying to get everything in place, but actually when you go to install the blower, there's quite a bit of room behind the AC compressor, so it's not too bad. As it is, Subaru just has those wires laying across the top of the engine in a fairly spartan manner - it's not exactly fine art in there once you pull the intake manifold off (this engine is kinda gross looking under there lol). In some ways, I felt that the time/energy I put into rerouting and placing things "just right" made me feel better about how the engine looked and how things routed underneath - whether you can see them or not - I know.

As far as pricing/who to buy from. Talk to Neal Wiebmer at The Racer's Line. He is in Concord, roughly 6hrs away from you - he is one of few Authorized Harrop Resellers in the US. I paid him $5k shipped to my door for the kit, and a little more later for the pulley upgrade to 85mm ($130 I think?). Of course prices change all the time, so I don't know what pricing would be like right now. He took very good care of me through a few different transactions, even when I had some issues in shipping with damaged products - very responsive and accommodating to help me get everything "right".

This price does not include a tune. You can partner with Neal to work that out - he has connections with certain tuners and could help you. Don't be deceived by the Edelbrock's promise of "flash it and go!" - bullshit. The tune Edelbrock supplies is garbage. Owners have had a lot of problems, needing additional add ons just to get basic drivability figured out. You _will_ need a custom, actual, tune for your car regardless of how you boost it. So you're going to have to pay for that no matter what.

I will say this, the kit has given me zero problems. I've had it on track twice - the only problem I have with the car is that it's too consistent and my brakes can't handle it! Always had power, lap after lap, even when my brakes were giving me the finger. It looks so clean and OEM in the engine bay that I've had people during tech inspections say "looks all stock, you're good to go!" ... "oh really? stock with a supercharger" ... "oh shit, it looks so OEM I had no idea". To me, that's how you know the fit/finish is good.

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I wouldn't discount the TVS1320. 500whp on E85 and 400whp on 93 has been proven on other platforms.

I'm quite interested to know what platforms these were, the CRs (for 93 octane) used and the capacity of the charge cooling systems.

If Harrop are only getting 430whp (e85) on their dev car....... surely that's going to be pretty much the limit for the FA20.

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by johan

I will say this, the kit has given me zero problems. I've had it on track twice - the only problem I have with the car is that it's too consistent and my brakes can't handle it! Always had power, lap after lap, even when my brakes were giving me the finger. It looks so clean and OEM in the engine bay that I've had people during tech inspections say "looks all stock, you're good to go!" ... "oh really? stock with a supercharger" ... "oh shit, it looks so OEM I had no idea". To me, that's how you know the fit/finish is good.

Mod 1 for me was the Harrop supercharger. Mod 2........ front BBK!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Bfranklyn86

I'm quite interested to know what platforms these were, the CRs (for 93 octane) used and the capacity of the charge cooling systems.

If Harrop are only getting 430whp (e85) on their dev car....... surely that's going to be pretty much the limit for the FA20.

10.6:1, K20.

In the specific example I'm thinking.