Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[WolfpackS2k]

^not really. This car doesn't spend much time at high speeds. We don't even know the measureable downforce of the wing shown in the spy photos. Does anyone have the specs for the tS wing from Japan?

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

I don't think you have a proper understanding of downforce. In your example, the only way the wing wouldn't make a difference is if you're taking a 120+mph corner flat, and I'm not sure if a corner exists in motorsports where an otherwise stock BRZ would be flat out at 120mph in a wide open corner.

That having been said, with downforce, the more you have, the faster you can go through a corner. Downforce = traction. So sure, there's a point where you have "too much downforce" because the drag on the straights outweighs the increased speed in the corners, but you rarely see that until you get to the fastest race cars. For a foil like the one that comes on the BRZ tS that won't be generating thousands of pounds of downforce, it's going to be beneficial every time you turn the wheel in anger.

The BRZ hardly ever reaches speeds on an (average) race track for downforce from a wing to even be a factor. It's just a joke. Even moreso for anyone that never tracks.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The BRZ hardly ever reaches speeds on an (average) race track for downforce from a wing to even be a factor. It's just a joke.

Again, you're misguided. Cars even at autocross speeds can benefit from downforce if the wing is producing it. And not all wings are the same. Many wings can be made to generate tremendous downforce at very low speeds, but will exhibit tremendous drag at much greater speeds. Again, the trick is to find the right blend of downforce to drag to decrease lap times.

STI doesn't throw a wing from eBay on the car and call it an STI. It has been tested and will produce beneficial downforce at speeds this particular car is capable of reaching on typical tracks.

[WolfpackS2k]

I'm not misguided. As a mechanical engineer I'm well versed in the functions of airflow and downforce. Yes of course you can design a wing that works at an autocross, but even then it's barely worth it. And certainly nobody is going to sell a BRZ with a wing effective at autoX speeds b/c your fuel efficiency would go right out the window from all the increased drag. But I'm sure that 50 lb of downforce generated at 120 mph, along with reduction in fuel efficiency, will make cruising around town with a stupid wing totally worth it!

Slow car + big stupid wing = very small improvement. The trade off isn't really worth it. But I guess that's what we get because Subaru, while getting rich off SUVs, can't be bothered to give us even a few bread crumbs of power.

[Ethereal05]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

Yeah they just don't produce in large volumes. I would say if you can find one at a competitive price get it. Even though the retail cost of it has dropped over time, shipping and import costs have increased, so it's actually more expensive than when I bought it.

While it's definitely an expensive piece I think I'm more immune to it now that I'm buying euro parts. Eyeing the akrapovic exhaust for my golf R and it retails at 3500 euros lol

Damn. I was sweating over $1500. I think it's going to be my next part so I'll be keeping an eye out for one.

[trippinbillies40]

I'm sorry but the car produces usable downforce at track speeds and turns quicker lap times because of it. It has been tested. And you want no downforce because it reduces fuel economy but want a turbo. Got it.

For reference, my best friend professionally races in Pirelli World Challenge. Drove a friend of our's '97 STL Civic this past weekend at Mid Ohio. Had a significant lead until the front splitter on the car came off removing front downforce. He dropped to third over the next few laps. But yeah, downforce would never make a difference at average tracks like Mid Ohio on a 180hp car!

[Lantana frs]

When it blows up at a track day just tell subaru you were testing the wing.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm not misguided. As a mechanical engineer I'm well versed in the functions of airflow and downforce. Yes of course you can design a wing that works at an autocross, but even then it's barely worth it. And certainly nobody is going to sell a BRZ with a wing effective at autoX speeds b/c your fuel efficiency would go right out the window from all the increased drag. But I'm sure that 50 lb of downforce generated at 120 mph, along with reduction in fuel efficiency, will make cruising around town with a stupid wing totally worth it!

Slow car + big stupid wing = very small improvement. The trade off isn't really worth it. But I guess that's what we get because Subaru, while getting rich off SUVs, can't be bothered to give us even a few bread crumbs of power.

You forget that the STI wings are adjustable. At least this is true for the JDM tS wing. For the new wing, let's wait till tomorrow

[airjonny]

Originally Posted by johan

If you don't want the wing, buy a PP and just add the STI accessories. IMO the wing is crucial to setting the package apart.

True but that may cost more doing it separately. There are tS models that are available in Japan minus the wing.

[OND]

I hope Subaru doesn't do what Honda did with the S2000CR, where they added shit load of rear grip to create a "limited edition performance version" of an already well balanced car. It was obviously faster, but the grip balance was too rear biased according to what I read.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Originally Posted by OND

I hope Subaru doesn't do what Honda did with the S2000CR, where they added shit load of rear grip to create a "limited edition performance version" of an already well balanced car. It was obviously faster, but the grip balance was too rear biased according to what I read.

didn't they take the A/C and stereo out of that one?

[goldenfri]

Originally Posted by OND

I hope Subaru doesn't do what Honda did with the S2000CR, where they added shit load of rear grip to create a "limited edition performance version" of an already well balanced car. It was obviously faster, but the grip balance was too rear biased according to what I read.

Sorry, but not true. The CR has great balance, they went from 245-> 255 rear tires and added a stiffer rear sway and functional wing and retuned the suspension for it. Not sure how that's adding a "shit load" of rear grip (I also currently own a CR)

[OND]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

Sorry, but not true. The CR has great balance, they went from 245-> 255 rear tires and added a stiffer rear sway and functional wing and retuned the suspension for it. Not sure how that's adding a "shit load" of rear grip (I also currently own a CR)

I'm just going from what I read online and comparing 1st gen S2000 to CR, which has much stiffer front suspension, softer rear sways, wider rear tires and the wing. Great if it works for you, but I wouldn't want that treatment for BRZ.

I like the cars balance and actually think the stock car needs more front end grip. I don't go above 95mph on our local track anyway and don't need more high speed stability. Just my preference..

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by perryair

excited to see those ps4's on a factory brz. even a stock PP with those tires should put up some awesome track numbers if as expected there are no go fast upgrades to the sti.

*edit - evidently thats not the ps4s cause they arent offered in any 17 inch sizes in the us, thats a european spec ps4, which isn't available here. so the release car would hopefully be with pss, still an awesome stock upgrade.

Those aren't 17's as the 17" STI wheels don't clear Brembos without spacers. Those are the 18's off the tS.

Originally Posted by 2013dgmbrzdood

Guys these are michelins pilot sports NOT THE NEW ps4s, those only fome in 18 and larger. Super sport is still their top tire for 17. These tires should have been there from the begining. The sad thing is they are cheaper and have been cheaper than our prius tires by a huge ass ammount of cash.

Subaru eas blowing smoke up everybodies arse about drifting and ease of break away when they were doing 2 things. Getting rid of inventory on these crap tires some type of deal with michelin and also squeezing out more mpg.

If i ever upgrade cars ill never ever have a brz on those tires again. They are crap and just make the car less capable.

I remember doing the same thing to my old mustang so it could slide around, however if I had decent tires it would just so what its suppose to. Cool for hooning if higher speeds are too much for you but bad for performance, handling and safety


Also why tease with sti brz spoiler and now announce ts. Subaru just isn't good at getting these all the way correct.

Can we expect 5 more years of the same boring ass paint subru? Are you not embarassed to be crapped on by hyundai and honda who have glorious paint colors relative to your toyota camry approach. Plz get a clue.

Those are 18's.

The car was meant to be "fun" from what Toyota said. While I enjoyed the car with factory rubber, the MPSS's are definitely a lot more fun for a person like me (I like grip and don't like drifting). Nothing else in their lineup comes with this tire so they're not "clearing out inventory" of the tires, especially if you look at date codes. Tires don't just sit around.

STI = brand and a car. Cars that aren't the STI get tS badges.

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

The image makes me question whether it even sits on the springs and dampers let alone the rest of the upgraded suspension. Looks like stock height. Mine doesn't sit anywhere near that height

Thought the newer tS stuff was Bilstein and stock'ish ride height compared to the original tS?

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm confused. The BRZ isn't high speed traction limited, nor does it suffer from rear end lift at high speeds like an S2000. So what's the point of a large rear spoiler?

All cars are traction limited...

Originally Posted by OND

I'm just going from what I read online and comparing 1st gen S2000 to CR, which has much stiffer front suspension, softer rear sways, wider rear tires and the wing. Great if it works for you, but I wouldn't want that treatment for BRZ.

I like the cars balance and actually think the stock car needs more front end grip. I don't go above 95mph on our local track anyway and don't need more high speed stability. Just my preference..

First gen S2K was considered a death trap by many because of the way the rear toed in under braking. Later revisions made the car more balanced and predictable.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Those aren't 17's as the 17" STI wheels don't clear Brembos without spacers. Those are the 18's off the tS.

fair enough. but the sidewalls on ps4s have an 's' next to the 4, which isn't on that social media picture released by subaru. the only tire that's sidewall reads 'pilot sport 4' appears to be the european only ps4.

the ps4s seems to only be available for 18 inch wheels in 245x40x18, while the jdm spec 18 inch tires appear to be either 225x40x18 or 245x35x18.