STI...pfft

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Sales dept does.

Typically the person who actually is supposed to be employed taking care of sales doesn't get paid for any other services the dealer offers. The owner of the dealership typically isnt doing anything for you except collecting their profit, whether sales gets screwed or not. Being in sales most of my life, I am not typically "that guy", the one who buys for $2000 below invoice when everyone else pays waaay more. I deal with people like this from time to time in my business. I always think to myself, maybe these people will suffer a lapse of income like I am when I am working for free. I had a guy recently, not only did I not make a dime, but he was way more work than most people. Of course my employer expects us to deal with this bullshit, I guess THEY are making money. Then, before taking delivery of our product, he went over and above his negotiation and posted a negative comment on Google maps for our head office location, making our marketing dept. pissed and forcing me to give the client an upgrade for a couple hundred more of the companys money in return for him removing the negative comment. What a useless mass of flesh.

That sounds like a problem between you and your employer to me. Contrary to what you and your co-workers might think, "those guys" are not obligated to buy anything from you, and certainly not expected to pay "way more" just because others give in and do it. Most people don't absolutely NEED to buy another car at all and there are plenty of used options available elsewhere, and that's pretty much my attitude if and when I show up to a car dealership. If you don't like dealing with that kind of negotiation and with getting hosed by your employer, maybe you should grow a pair and stand up to them rather than blaming it on a customer. Obviously someone is making money even on those sort of sales or they would never happen. If you allow that to happen while you sit back and get none of it, that sounds like your fault to me.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by radroach

This thread is garbage (a BRZ is NOT an STi stop trying to compare them)

OP wasnt comparing the BRZ and WRX STi. He was sharing his idea of what a DIY BRZ STI should look like since Subaru will probably never give us one.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

That sounds like a problem between you and your employer to me. Contrary to what you and your co-workers might think, "those guys" are not obligated to buy anything from you, and certainly not expected to pay "way more" just because others give in and do it. Most people don't absolutely NEED to buy another car at all and there are plenty of used options available elsewhere, and that's pretty much my attitude if and when I show up to a car dealership. If you don't like dealing with that kind of negotiation and with getting hosed by your employer, maybe you should grow a pair and stand up to them rather than blaming it on a customer. Obviously someone is making money even on those sort of sales or they would never happen. If you allow that to happen while you sit back and get none of it, that sounds like your fault to me.

Not my employer, buddy. I sold cars from '87 to late '89. Long enough to understand how the business works. I am in commission sales though and make a decent living most years.

Thats how the new car business works. Most salespeople dont earn a decent living. Id consider selling Toyota as a "retirement" job when I'm in my 60's and I don't need the money for retirement, but prefer not to actually retire. My wife leased her last 2 cars from a guy like that. At that point $50K/year might be better than having retirement income only provided I'm healthy.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by prj3ctm4yh3m

Brz isnt an established subbrand like sti or corvette that has stored goodwill. I dont think they will make the push to develop brz (or Ts--in the states), given their current vector.

Re their success, I think it's fleeting and toyota will kill what's left of their quirkiness. I.e. they wont be able to bottle the lightning.

You can cut up the success of Subaru however you see fit. Fact of matter is, whatever they've been doing for the past 5 years is working well and until someone convinces them otherwise, their marketing direction will remain the same.

This just means things that enthusiasts like and care about will not be given any serious consideration.

-alex

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by mav1178

You can cut up the success of Subaru however you see fit. Fact of matter is, whatever they've been doing for the past 5 years is working well and until someone convinces them otherwise, their marketing direction will remain the same.

This just means things that enthusiasts like and care about will not be given any serious consideration.

-alex

Yep, you can still vote with your wallet though. I've never bought a twin brand new off the showroom floor and I don't intend to unless they offer a forced induction one. I've got a 3 door six speed Golf TDI, something that they no longer offer in TDI or GTI trim. As a result, I won't be buying another Golf any time soon either.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Note our locations. That is $800 here that is why I wondered where he was getting them so cheap.

Check ebay discounttiredirect as well. I bought 4 Yokohama Advan tires (225/45-17) for $385 including shipping and tax (excluding $60 rebate).

[FX86]

ain't nobody got time to catch an STI around here

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by radroach

This thread is garbage (a BRZ is NOT an STi stop trying to compare them)

Hey look, someone who doesn't know that STI is the in house tuning division of Subaru and not a car.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

That sounds like a problem between you and your employer to me. Contrary to what you and your co-workers might think, "those guys" are not obligated to buy anything from you, and certainly not expected to pay "way more" just because others give in and do it. Most people don't absolutely NEED to buy another car at all and there are plenty of used options available elsewhere, and that's pretty much my attitude if and when I show up to a car dealership.

In the sales business (I won't tell you what I sell, but it can go up to a fairly big ticket), we refer to people like you as "dead wood". In other words, your business isn't even worth the paper it's printed on. Usually people like that aren't buyers, and no matter how well we meet your objections to buy you will just keep throwing out more bs objections as an excuse to get off the hook. And then there's the lowballer, who then finds a reason to back out in the end even if his egregious offer is somehow accepted (that's another story).

I was always helpful to people who were genuine and frankly, felt nothing but disdain for people with your attitude. In commission sales there is always risk of failure. Dealing with someone like you is almost a guaranteed fail.

With any business there is a happy medium, not 100% in one person's favour. Luckily good salespeople are able to find this. Others might reglularly gouge people and others might starve to death. I tend to shoot for the in between on average, that fits my conscience best and most years my income too.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Where the hell do you buy your ties to get anything decent for $500 total? I want an address.

Also, a lot of places (Tire Rack being one of them) have rebates when you buy four, and they're offered frequently. I don't think I bought a set of tires for my Evo that didn't have a rebate. Plus a lot of places will match prices anyway, so a few minutes of price shopping on the internet will get a lot done.

Originally Posted by goldenfri

The good/bad thing about the performance package is if they just called it the BRZ STI instead of an option package on the limited I bet you wouldn't be able to get it nearly as cheap as you can now.

Right now you can easily get it under invoice, but if it had STI in the name I bet dealers would be trying to mark it up or at the very least not selling under MSRP.

Good point. The company I work for has a few deals for discounted corporate pricing with Hyundai and Subaru. The fine print of the Subaru details are that it does not apply to STI models. So if I were in the market and that same car were the STI, then the pricing wouldn't help me out.

Originally Posted by wbradley

Considering the typical markup on the BRZ is probably in the 8.5-9% range, selling at an $1,800. discount only reinforces what a lousy job selling new cars can be. Sales rep would be doing his job just for the priviledge of being allowed to do so. Sales persons commisssion probably somewhere between 0 and $150. House typically makes their money on holdback if its new stock, or possibly kickback from the factory to move idle inventory. The business I am in is plagued with similar bs. Except with my company, the house pads their cost a huge percentage.

Yup. Unless you get a lot of suckers coming in through the doors, most sales are going to be mini-deals.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by wbradley

In the sales business (I won't tell you what I sell, but it can go up to a fairly big ticket), we refer to people like you as "dead wood". In other words, your business isn't even worth the paper it's printed on. Usually people like that aren't buyers, and no matter how well we meet your objections to buy you will just keep throwing out more bs objections as an excuse to get off the hook. And then there's the lowballer, who then finds a reason to back out in the end even if his egregious offer is somehow accepted (that's another story).

I was always helpful to people who were genuine and frankly, felt nothing but disdain for people with your attitude. In commission sales there is always risk of failure. Dealing with someone like you is almost a guaranteed fail.

With any business there is a happy medium, not 100% in one person's favour. Luckily good salespeople are able to find this. Others might reglularly gouge people and others might starve to death. I tend to shoot for the in between on average, that fits my conscience best and most years my income too.

Well if we are talking cars, I guess the feeling is mutual then. I find sales people who expect people to just buy something like a vehicle without having to put forth any effort, to be lazy and detestable. On the other hand, I've also shown up and bought high end appliances and electronics just about as quick as they can ring me up. They're researched beforehand and I almost always buy on special (i.e. black friday, 4th of July, etc.)

The difference is that sales people don't play games with those sorts of products like they do with cars. I have a 50:50 record of buying when dealing with dealerships within the past five or so years. I would consider both of the purchases to have been a fair deal without beatIng them up too bad. The 86 was even asking price, no haggle but they dropped their asking price 2 grand due to lack of interest before I actually pulled the trigger. In both cases, I needed the vehicle quickly but I was still able to get down to below book value, but above invoice or trade in. I also didn't take up much of their time all things considered and I think of them favorably and would buy from them again.

The other two times I didn't need a vehicle but was legitimately looking if I could get them down to any point below MSRP. I got turned off by a bunch of gimmicks and high pressure sales tactics. People trying to upsell me shit that we both knew I didn't need, flat out lies being told about the vehicle. It's funny when you know more about something than the person selling it. I got the impression that they shared your attitude that I was lucky to be graced with the presence of their product, I should care about their personal income, and I should be buying whether a decent price was offered or not and whether or not what I was buying actually fit the requirements I gave them and wasn't just something they wanted off the lot. They spent more time with me than the salesmen that I actually bought from but that is because they chose to spend their time trying to bullshit me and/or pressure a buyer who didn't need a car into buying same day. They could have just as easily taken down the features and price I wanted, gone on a quick test drive and called me if they could make something work. I guess that's the difference though. To some salesmen, if you aren't a retard that they can dupe into 72 month financing a bunch of features you don't need and a locality adjustment fee on the same day you walk in, you're a waste of time.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

But not everyone is like you. I had a stint working at a dealership and hated it, based on a combination of me not being a snake and most of our customers wasting my time as a result since I'm not the type to tell them to screw off. I absolutely didn't expect to sell a car to everyone who walks in the door, but people took hours and wanted to test drive everything, even if it's the same car but with leather. Then they do the back-and-forth and get to the price they wanted but then say thanks, I'm gonna see what XYZ dealership can do.

I loved cars and had fun explaining features, but you wouldn't believe how much time some people wasted.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Well if we are talking cars, I guess the feeling is mutual then. I find sales people who expect people to just buy something like a vehicle without having to put forth any effort, to be lazy . I got the impression that they shared your attitude that I was lucky to be graced with the presence of their product, I should care about their personal income, and I should be buying whether a decent price was offered or not and whether or not

If you want the product (demand), then you will be reasonable. If you don't really care one way or the other and it''s just the price, I'd tell you to fuck off in so few words.

My attitude? I am a sales professional. Inicidentally I paid full price no discount for my Scion just like most everybody else., and I had purchased another car from that dealer just 18 months previous. I was happy with the value I got at the time. The son of the owner gave me a free gift for repeat business, a Scion travel cup.

Who knows, maybe you are just good at getting your way. Perhaps you should work on commission sales too so you can use those bargaining skills to your advantage and control your income. Many of the wealthiest people are in some form of sales.

I never lose sleep over the money I might have left on the table. I liked the attention I got with a first model year car and I am aware that generally there is more wheeling and dealing as the model ages. Luckily I have been able to afford my purchases.

Sales staff hang out in a showroom waiting for people just so they can "tax" your purchase with their profit/commission. I am somewhat more of a go-getter in my line of work but I started with cars and might go back to it when I want to retire from busting my ass one day.

The reason they are on commission is so they will make every effort to preserve profit for the dealer. But, when business slows or something doesn't work out, the dealer typically has a lot more protection than an employee. After all they are the ones taking the greatest financial risk. It just sucks that some dealers "feed" on the system failing and taking their profits at the back end depending on the dealer/distributor arrangement. Obviously car sales has high turnover. My business does too sadly, but I am going on 16 years there.

So, in summation, you will be limited to buying products where demand does not easily meet/exceed demand if you are determined to drive the price lower.

I don't like getting ripped off, but I also don't like making a person who helps me miss out on their reasonable paycheck.

[goldenfri]

When I buy a car I want to get the best price possible, but I also don't want to waste the sales person's time and I expect my time not to be wasted as well. I want the salesperson to do the least amount of work possible to give me the best deal. Honestly I would just assume order the car direct if I could and not deal with any sales middle man. They don't offer any value add at all for me. I've done my research and I know what I want. When my wife bought her last new car the salesperson tried to play these games and waste our time, make us wait around etc and we walked out. We later negotiated directly with the sales manager and got a great deal. We knew exactly what we wanted and just wanted him to order it for a good price. When I ordered this car I didn't even step into a dealership.

If you expect the salesperson to do a lot for you then yea you should probably be paying more, but I don't want to pay money for someone to just enter my order into a computer.