Custom trailer to carry 100 gal of E85 to track

[dp1]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

OK, just double checked and I can't find anything to indicate that you'd run into any legal issues. As long as it's for private use, for your own consumption, you can bring up to 400.-kgs (net) of liquid fuel so long as it's in a DOT approved container or containers.

That said, just let me have your schedule and route so that if we're going to the same event, I can make sure I'm on the road ahead of you.

Thank you very much!
Good to understand legality, don't want to break laws.
I will try to avoid trailering route unless I can't have fuel delivered and I am convinced that the trailer could be built in a way that makes it as safe as possible (not there yet). I wouldn't carry anything besides fuel tank and 60 gal max.
Hope I can have fuel delivered...looking into that.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Being the BRZ does not have a way to make a functional hitch(with out modifying the body), I would not even consider this. The hitches that mount to your tow hook mounts, I would not trust with 800lbs/more? of weight with the fuel trailer, etc on it.

Great points, thanks. There are two basic designs - the one that bolts behind the bumper appears better and is rated higher. I don't care about adding little weight and keeping it on, car is already gutted.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by dp1

Great points, thanks. There are two basic designs - the one that bolts behind the bumper appears better and is rated higher. I don't care about adding little weight and keeping it on, car is already gutted.

Ya, I wouldn't trust anything but a proper hitch to have that much weight, especially fuel behind me. The ones that use the tow hooks have their "use", but I don't trust it for heavy use.

[ka-t_240]

We transport the 55 gallon drums in an enclosed trailer, at least in the past. We usually use an open trailer or pickup when we go get fuel.

My friend has a modded zr-1 on e85, so lets just say he uses a tiny bit of fuel at the track. So, we haul them in his trailer and have built a pump system to fill from the barrel to the VP cans, or straight to the cars.

[Stang70Fastback]

Where are people getting these 800-1000 lb trailer weights from? According to Google, E85 weighs 6.59 lb/gal. So 60 gallons of the stuff would be less than 400 lb. Add 300 for the trailer (which is generous considering a small Harbor Freight trailer weighs half that and all you're adding is a tank.) and you're at less than 700 lb. I tow my 650 lb tire trailer using the Slambert Performance Twin-Hitch, which uses the tow hook points, without any issues.

Find a way to prevent the fuel from sloshing around too much and I don't really see the weight issue. Safety is another thing, but just looking at it from a weight perspective, I don't think that's really a problem needing to be solved. (If I were doing this, I'd probably buy a cylindrical-shaped tank, and cut the floor of the trailer out, and recess the tank so that the centerline of the tank (and therefore the MAXIMUM center of gravity of the tank when filled to the brim) was only a handful of inches above the bed at most. You'd have to modify the center beam of the trailer, but that just requires a bit of welding. Project!

[dp1]

Originally Posted by stock

.

Appreciate that - the words used were "I bet..." - does anyone know this for a fact? Aside from fuel being involved, towed legally, how would liability differ from any other accident involving towing?

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by dp1

Appreciate that - the words used were "I bet..." - does anyone know this for a fact? Aside from fuel being involved, towed legally, how would liability differ from any other accident involving towing?

I think the issue in this case, is if somebody else is injured and sues you, as you didn't break the law you can not be charged criminally, but they could file a civil suit. And in such a suit, they could find you of being negligent for transporting a hazardous substance that was not 'adequately' secured and resulted in death or injury. And if your liability insurance does specifically allow you to tow fuel, or judgement is for a higher amount than your insurance covers, it could lead to financial hardship.

But I should really stop posting. Like a few others, I'm always leery of these things and always fear the worst. I think I'm just a born pessimist.

[JazzleSAURUS]

What's your winter car?

Maybe swap that for a reasonable tow rig, I think that's more the direction you need to be heading to do this safely, and repeatably.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I think the issue in this case, is if somebody else is injured and sues you, as you didn't break the law you can not be charged criminally, but they could file a civil suit. And in such a suit, they could find you of being negligent for transporting a hazardous substance that was not 'adequately' secured and resulted in death or injury. And if your liability insurance does specifically allow you to tow fuel, or judgement is for a higher amount than your insurance covers, it could lead to financial hardship.

But I should really stop posting. Like a few others, I'm always leery of these things and always fear the worst. I think I'm just a born pessimist.

Great points, I'll check insurance, thanks

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Where are people getting these 800-1000 lb trailer weights from? According to Google, E85 weighs 6.59 lb/gal. So 60 gallons of the stuff would be less than 400 lb. Add 300 for the trailer (which is generous considering a small Harbor Freight trailer weighs half that and all you're adding is a tank.) and you're at less than 700 lb. I tow my 650 lb tire trailer using the Slambert Performance Twin-Hitch, which uses the tow hook points, without any issues.

Find a way to prevent the fuel from sloshing around too much and I don't really see the weight issue. Safety is another thing, but just looking at it from a weight perspective, I don't think that's really a problem needing to be solved. (If I were doing this, I'd probably buy a cylindrical-shaped tank, and cut the floor of the trailer out, and recess the tank so that the centerline of the tank (and therefore the MAXIMUM center of gravity of the tank when filled to the brim) was only a handful of inches above the bed at most. You'd have to modify the center beam of the trailer, but that just requires a bit of welding. Project!

It started at 110gallon.

And a half full tank is far more dangerous than a full one. It's not the CG, it's 200lbs of liquid moving a different direction than you're trying to move it. Or more for larger tanks, 3/4 full,etc. I'd mostly be worried about exceeding tongue weight on the Slambert with a half full tank... A hard stop puts lots of weight forward before sloshing back and lifting a little on the tongue...

It would be a lot safer if it were only all full or empty.

C

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by cjd

And a half full tank is far more dangerous than a full one. It's not the CG, it's 200lbs of liquid moving a different direction than you're trying to move it. Or more for larger tanks, 3/4 full,etc. I'd mostly be worried about exceeding tongue weight on the Slambert with a half full tank... A hard stop puts lots of weight forward before sloshing back and lifting a little on the tongue...

It would be a lot safer if it were only all full or empty.

Agreed. That's why I mentioned that the weight wouldn't be an issue if he could solve the fuel sloshing issue. There must be tanks on the market that solve this problem, as he's not the first to encounter it. Cost might be an issue, but I'm sure it exists. I'm not a fuel tank expert, but if this issue has been solved for aircraft, automobiles, etc... then I'm sure it's been solved by independent fuel tank manufacturers!

[dp1]

Originally Posted by cjd

It started at 110gallon.



And a half full tank is far more dangerous than a full one. It's not the CG, it's 200lbs of liquid moving a different direction than you're trying to move it. Or more for larger tanks, 3/4 full,etc. I'd mostly be worried about exceeding tongue weight on the Slambert with a half full tank... A hard stop puts lots of weight forward before sloshing back and lifting a little on the tongue...



It would be a lot safer if it were only all full or empty.



C

Baffled tank is a must and they are available. Slambert is not considered at this point as there are stronger alternatives. I don't need to be able to remove the hitch on the track.

[xwd]

I just skimmed through this thread, but the solution to your problem is a real trailer and tow vehicle.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by dp1

Baffled tank is a must and they are available. Slambert is not considered at this point as there are stronger alternatives. I don't need to be able to remove the hitch on the track.

Yeah, I'm just stuck on childhood memories of a friend's dad talking about how much he hated it when he was hauling milk... And the horror stories. I honestly don't know enough about how well a baffled tank helps, but had forgotten you mentioned that.