Traded the German for an Italian

[wbradley]

The full CF structure is a big deal considering prior to this the few cars that had one were in the upper level supercar league.

The question is, can an average Joe go 90% at the track with this car? I'd say unequivocally no. Maybe a factory car, but these still have exotic bodies on them. Not fair to compare with a who gives a s#%t GT86 on a sliding-friendly circuit.

And I'd expect the Cayman to be the most neutral and dialed in, but a good driver in the GT86 can still probably beat it on a circuit.

The auto box would be tough for me to accept but perhaps shifting with paddles is an adaptable skill in the twisties, havent tried.
There must be a reason they don't offer manual. Perhaps the makers feel that's just too plebian for this type of car.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by wbradley

There must be a reason they don't offer manual. Perhaps the makers feel that's just too plebian for this type of car.

I believe I read it has to do with how the carbon tub is designed and that a manual was physically impossible to put in and was never considered.

[MarkR171]

This article sums up exactly how I feel, 4th day into ownership.

http://jalopnik.com/the-alfa-romeo-4...the-1701901653

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

The AMG was the most reliable car I ever owned, and I owned it the longest of all my cars. The BMW (135i) was a pile of shit though.

My comment was a bit more toungue-in-cheek than a true indictment of German reliability. My experience has been a bit mixed.. all of the vehicles below were bought used, out of warranty, from private dealerships (not MB dealers... except that the BMW was purchased from an MB dealership).

'88 560SL - Doesn't get driven a whole lot; probably put abotu 30K miles on it in the past 10 years. That's not real good for any car. Having said that, and given its age, it's actually been quite good and never left us stranded anywhere. We HAVE taken it on fairly long trips. Parts are expensive.

'99 ML430 - Put over 200K miles on this one, and it was great. Left us stranded three times in it's lifetime; bad starter went on a long trip in a VERY out of the way place requiring a three-hour flat-bed ride, and blew the serpentine belt twice in two years when we finally located a small oil leak causing the belts to wear prematurely. Replaced various suspension parts as they wore out and rust ate them over the years. Parts not cheap, but not insane.

'06 ML500 - Bought this when our ML430 was too severly eaten by our @#$# winter salted roads to keep going, and went with it because we loved the ML430. The first year was AWFUL. Required three electronic modules replaced to the tune of $500 each, NEW transmission and transfer case, parking brake cable (if you've ever replaced one of these in an ML500, you know why I have it listed), EGR valve, and a bunch of other stuff.. over $10,000 in parts. I got what I thought was a great price on the car, but I found out WHY the hard way. The dealership was... umm... "less than honest" ... sort of like how a tidal wave is "a bit damp." The parts were very expensive, and the repairs are very difficult.

'93 325i - My favorite car of all time. Parts were suprisingly reasonable, very easy to work on, and you could NOT kill this car. Got it to 235K miles before the salt finally did it in... and even then it still drove like a champ. Most reliable car I've ever had, including 70's, 80's, and 90's Toyotas and Mitsubishis, Ford, and GM products.

'82 Rabbit Convertible - too old and too much of a basket case when I bought it to really factor into any discussions of reliability. It's been a lot of fun, and I've learned a lot renovating it. I need to learn more.

'71 Fiat Spider and '74 Fiat Spider - A blast to drive. Loved the way they looked and felt. You simply can't own one unless you're a mechanic. At the time, I wasn't really one. I'd buy another one now, but they were, hands down, by FAR the least reliable cars I've ever experienced... ever.. anywhere. Let's say that all of my other cars, on a scale of 1 to 100 on the reliability scale, fell between 70 and 95, the Fiats were around 30. I had a '93 Range Rover County LWB (that I also loved) that gave the Fiats a run for their money on the reliability scale occasionally, but even that one was around a 60 over it's lifespan. Fiat parts were, as I recall, fairly reasonable too, but that was a while ago. Rover parts were NOT cheap.

So.. basically, in my experience.. German cars WERE pretty good reliability-wise, but the MB's, especially the newer ones, are difficult to work on, pretty complex, and the parts are expensive. The BMW was phenomenal. The older Fiats lived up to their nightmare reputation in terms of unreliability. I'm very scared of Italian cars now, much as I love the way a lot of them look. I have the same view of British cars. "The Parts Falling Off This Car Are of the Highest British Engineering"... "Lucas, Prince of Darkness"... those bumper stickers are around for a reason!

All in good fun. You've owned some VERY nice cars.. enjoy!

Best,

Barry

[DarkSunrise]

Another thing that's being overlooked is how well a dual-clutch trans matches with a small-displacement, turbo setup. I don't normally track with my GTI, but the few times I have I like how the DSG in that car allows the turbo to stay spooled in between full throttle upshifts.

It's not my transmission of choice but if ever there was an application where the dual-clutch made sense, it's in the 4c as a featherweight, modern turbo exotic. For those wanting a more old-school basic setup (manual trans vs. dual-clutch, NA engine vs. turbo, aluminum chassis vs. carbon-fiber), there are plenty of used Elises on the market.

[Roadcone]

i know a few people who have had big issues with the trans. one ended up getting a completely different car because fiat couldnt fix it lol

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Another thing that's being overlooked is how well a dual-clutch trans matches with a small-displacement, turbo setup. I don't normally track with my GTI, but the few times I have I like how the DSG in that car allows the turbo to stay spooled in between full throttle upshifts.

It's not my transmission of choice but if ever there was an application where the dual-clutch made sense, it's in the 4c as a featherweight, modern turbo exotic. For those wanting a more old-school basic setup (manual trans vs. dual-clutch, NA engine vs. turbo, aluminum chassis vs. carbon-fiber), there are plenty of used Elises on the market.

Agreed. Considering how much traffic sucks out here in CA, and the fact that my left knee sucks, I'd be totally open to the idea of my next car being an automatic/DCT. Makes my life easier in traffic, but lets me enjoy some fun when I get a good road or on a track.

If they would just start putting Hollinger sequential transmissions in cars, it wouldn't be an issue. I could shift everywhere I go and just choose when I do or don't want to use a clutch

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

....

If they would just start putting Hollinger sequential transmissions in cars, it wouldn't be an issue. I could shift everywhere I go and just choose when I do or don't want to use a clutch

You can do that now, with most manual tranmissions. If I'm feelin' lazy, or just for practice, I occasionally shift my manul FR-S w/out using the clutch. Nothing wrong with doing that..

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

You can do that now, with most manual tranmissions. If I'm feelin' lazy, or just for practice, I occasionally shift my manul FR-S w/out using the clutch. Nothing wrong with doing that..

Ya no thanks.

[MuseChaser]

I was being serious.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

i know a few people who have had big issues with the trans. one ended up getting a completely different car because fiat couldnt fix it lol

It happens with every car. There are people here who have had engines replaced in their frs/brz.

The new Miata is blowing up 2nd gear in every car.

I got rid of my bmw because they insisted that it was normal for the dct to occasionally stall in traffic. The Alfa dual clutch however acts nothing like the bmw unit or vw dsg or Porsche pdk.

[kanundrum]

Sold my FRS a few months back and currently awaiting my Giulia Quadrifoglio. Nice Choice man!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

Sold my FRS a few months back and currently awaiting my Giulia Quadrifoglio. Nice Choice man!

I had to look that up! There is no hope in hell I could own one since I would never be able to say what it was when people asked.

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I had to look that up! There is no hope in hell I could own one since I would never be able to say what it was when people asked.

Benefit of having a wife from Rome lol. I know way more italian than I should haha.