How to run E85 on stock 86 BRZ FRS with OFT tune

[MisterSheep]

Originally Posted by adrianlam

Hey guys, I'm on my second tank of E85, and my LTFT just hold up to around +1.86% at idle, and around -7.XX% while i m cruising on highway

i only installed the HKS HI POWER SPEC-L catback exhaust
I'm using the stage 2 e85 EL tune.

Is that normal?

I'm having similar symptoms..

LFTF: at around -6 while cruising on highway and then with playing with throttle input the max I reached was +1. It was also around +.5 at idle and with 50% throttle around -6 again. The lowest I saw was a -7.1

From reading from the first post again it seems that we both went to a low % e85 station, and as long as we are not going higher than -/+10 then we should be alright. Higher concentrate of E85 will cause you to be more + and lower will go more -

[steve99]

Shiv says the E85 tune is good for mix’s between E60 and E90, but it does take time to learn a new mix , so each time you fuel up take it easy for the first 10km or so to let it learn again.


E50 would be pushing the limits a bit so you would want to keep an eye on knock.


Your LTFT will vary around a bit more on E85 tune if the ethanol percent of your fuel changes.
If the E% is around 70% then the LTFT will be fairly low possibly less than 5%.
IF you E% is less than 70% your LTFT will start to trend negative
If you E% is above 70% then your LTFT will trend positive


As long as their less than about 10% +or- your fine.
you will always notice LTFT drift around a bit more at idle and low rpm due large changes in Intake air temps this is normal.


This assumes your running a stock intake, or have rescaled your maf sensor to suit an aftermarket intake

[adrianlam]

I just uploaded the datalog and load the data on datazap.

Here: http://www.datazap.me/u/adrianlamlol...8?log=0&data=1

Hopefully i put the third tank of E85 the ltft will go positive while i am cruising on highway.

[FR-Slide]

Hoping someone can help or at least calm my worries.

For some reason, my OFT is not able to connect to my ECU when trying to open up the diagnostic tool. After keying on the ignition, I get an error that says "Please Update Template File" with the only option being an X box. As you know, the last few firmware udpates on the website have gotten rid of Template Files since OFM and OFT now do this automagically, which means I'm not sure how to address this issue. Both OFT and OFM are completely up to date as of yesterday according to the internet.

Anyway, I managed to accidentally figure out a way to get the OFT to display some data: if I key OFF the car with the error message still on the OFT screen, the OFT will pop up a window that has some values/data. I can then crank the car up and the OFT will display those values, however I cannot scroll or highlight them, and I cannot log anything.

So, I've been able to kind of watch the values (AFR, LTFT, STFT, etc) while driving. For some reason, IAM seems pegged at 0.00 when I was on the petrol tune (Stage 2 OFH tune), but all other values seemed accurate and safe.

I filled up with e85, watched my fuel trims, and then flashed over once they spiked. Fuel trims have stabilized to ~4-7% when cruising, but idle is a bit over 10%. AFR is also a bit lean it looks, usually 14.6-14.8 when cruise/idle, and still in the 13s when under moderate load. More worryingly the IAM is still pegged at 0.00 all the time. But, since this didn't seem to read/work on the petrol tune (and since the OFT itself is already acting odd), I'm not sure if this is accurate/reliable.

So, now I'm totally worried that I'm running super lean with my timing parameters all screwed up. It seems like I have some tip-in knock, but again I'm not sure I can trust what the OFT is telling me. The pedal still feels a little dead, and the car seems to hesitate bit sometimes, but in 2nd or 3rd it seems like I have more grunt down low, which would be indicative of a proper e85 power curve.

Anyone else experienced this issue with the latest FW version (137)? Or, anyone have any suggestions on how to fix the OFT issue so that I can grab some logs to analyze? I'm really hesitant to drive now, especially to drive hard, which kinda defeats the purpose of e85

Oh, and yes, I've emailed the OFT team already. Just thought I'd ask around here as well!

[FR-Slide]

Originally Posted by steve99

Ok that's looking heaps better AFR is normal and ltft seems to be ok but its going to -100 off throttle and IAM alternates between 1 and 0. I think that's bogus and just a logging problem with OFT, they have a couple of issues at present with logging of some roms.


looking at KC Learned it appears knock is fine and IAM is not in fact 0


but it looks like your running an E85 tune now, even though logging of some parameters is a bit suspect.


You need to get onto the oft guys so they can sort out that logging as its difficult to read too much into it with the suspect parameters, but it looks safe from what I can see.

Hey Steve, sorry to bug you again about this, but I'm just re-reading everything I can to make sure I'm running safe. I saw the part about AFR being ~0.5 higher on e85, which helps explain my higher AFRs and makes me feel more comfortable. However, I'm still worried about that weird reading of 0.00 IAM consistently.

Bolded above, I wanted to ask if this may be why my data is reading at 0 IAM all the time? I know my OFT is having trouble reading data normally, since I have to basically backdoor it into the ECU, but I wanted to see if you could explain what you meant by the bugs going around recently?

Still waiting for an email back from the Openflash team to see if they can help too, but I know you're perhaps the most knowledgeable person on here, so I thought I'd ask about that comment you made.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by FR-Slide

Hey Steve, sorry to bug you again about this, but I'm just re-reading everything I can to make sure I'm running safe. I saw the part about AFR being ~0.5 higher on e85, which helps explain my higher AFRs and makes me feel more comfortable. However, I'm still worried about that weird reading of 0.00 IAM consistently.

Bolded above, I wanted to ask if this may be why my data is reading at 0 IAM all the time? I know my OFT is having trouble reading data normally, since I have to basically backdoor it into the ECU, but I wanted to see if you could explain what you meant by the bugs going around recently?

Still waiting for an email back from the Openflash team to see if they can help too, but I know you're perhaps the most knowledgeable person on here, so I thought I'd ask about that comment you made.

Looks like oft still has some logging issues with some rom calid best talk to the oft guys and hopefully they will fix it.

you can derive the iam from the kc learned parameter with a bit of maths

see the knock thread link below

[FR-Slide]

Originally Posted by steve99

Looks like oft still has some logging issues with some rom calid best talk to the oft guys and hopefully they will fix it.

you can derive the iam from the kc learned parameter with a bit of maths

see the knock thread link below

Hi Steve (and everyone else),

Shiv got me a corrected template file, so all is well. If anyone else was having connection or logging issues, let me know and I can share it with you.

I took my first stab at logging today, and was hoping someone could tell me if everything looks good. I hope I got all the right parameters. The roads were quite wet, so I was not able to get a good WOT pull without breaking traction (guess that's a good sign?), but hopefully it has enough data to determine if I'm safe.

http://www.datazap.me/u/pbthomas/log...=1-2-5-9-12-14

Thanks again for all your help!

[steve99]

Originally Posted by FR-Slide

Hi Steve (and everyone else),

Shiv got me a corrected template file, so all is well. If anyone else was having connection or logging issues, let me know and I can share it with you.

I took my first stab at logging today, and was hoping someone could tell me if everything looks good. I hope I got all the right parameters. The roads were quite wet, so I was not able to get a good WOT pull without breaking traction (guess that's a good sign?), but hopefully it has enough data to determine if I'm safe.

http://www.datazap.me/u/pbthomas/log...=1-2-5-9-12-14

Thanks again for all your help!

looks fine, running a little rich in open loop but thats safe

you might as well post up the template sure other guys will need it, hopefully tge oft guys will put in on their downloads page

[FR-Slide]

Originally Posted by steve99

looks fine, running a little rich in open loop but thats safe

you might as well post up the template sure other guys will need it, hopefully tge oft guys will put in on their downloads page

Thanks as always Steve, I feel much better.

Edit: forgot about zip. File is posted here for anyone that needs.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by FR-Slide

Thanks as always Steve, I feel much better.

I tried to attach the file here, but it's an unsupported type (.SLT); I'm happy to host it, but I'm not sure how to attach it. So, in the meantime, if anyone needs a copy, just shoot me a PM.

if you zip the file you can then attach it.

[MisterSheep]

I've just reflashed my car back to the Stage 2 E85 tune on my stock header, I notice while on the middle of the freeway that the KC learned started to fluctuate. This is the first time it has done that since I had bought the OFT. I have read @steve99's thread about how KC Learned is not knock but at the same time my IAM stayed at 1 the whole time. Around 5% throttle/ cruising my KCL was 0.00 but once I got around 10% throttle it became around 3.0~3.5. What I might do is refill with E85 and see if that helps because I saw that my LTFT were lower around -7% this had happened to me the first time I switched over to E85 and the first morning after the LTFT were low.

edit: alright was able to fill up again with E85 hoping that there less 91 in the system. My LTFT is now between -3% and +3% but I still have the KC Learned fluctuating now between 0.0 to almost 4. I also started monitoring the one that is "Knock Correc." on the OFT and that went from 0 to -.68% at some point. My Advanced Multiplier is still at 1.0. Should I start to worry that the engine is in fact knocking?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

I've just reflashed my car back to the Stage 2 E85 tune on my stock header, I notice while on the middle of the freeway that the KC learned started to fluctuate. This is the first time it has done that since I had bought the OFT. I have read @steve99's thread about how KC Learned is not knock but at the same time my IAM stayed at 1 the whole time. Around 5% throttle/ cruising my KCL was 0.00 but once I got around 10% throttle it became around 3.0~3.5. What I might do is refill with E85 and see if that helps because I saw that my LTFT were lower around -7% this had happened to me the first time I switched over to E85 and the first morning after the LTFT were low.

edit: alright was able to fill up again with E85 hoping that there less 91 in the system. My LTFT is now between -3% and +3% but I still have the KC Learned fluctuating now between 0.0 to almost 4. I also started monitoring the one that is "Knock Correc." on the OFT and that went from 0 to -.68% at some point. My Advanced Multiplier is still at 1.0. Should I start to worry that the engine is in fact knocking?

nope its fine
ltft is low
iam=1
kc learned is not knock and it doing what its supposed to do.
any random knock either FLKC or Knock correction less than -1 and iam still at 1 is insignificant.

[Tectoniic]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

snip

Because I still don't know how to link a single post.....
Look at steve's post about halfway down this page it explains KC Learned better at least for me than in the OP
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...01#post1842501
If your IAM is staying at 1 your ECU is not pulling any timing due to either no knock or a very insignificant amount of knock.
While +/-3 is pretty good for LTFT keep an eye on this to see if it starts creeping up. Your LTFTs should reset a bit after a flash and as they average more and more data you may see them get back up to the +/-7s you were having before or it could just be 91 still in the tank or a different E%


EDIT: Ninja'd by @steve99 when I was so close to being helpful lol. Is my analysis at least correct?

[MisterSheep]

Originally Posted by steve99

nope its fine
ltft is low
iam=1
kc learned is not knock and it doing what its supposed to do.
any random knock either FLKC or Knock correction less than -1 and iam still at 1 is insignificant.

I just found it weird that it never happened before.. Good to know I shouldn't worry and I should only be worried once IAM fluctuates and FLKC fluctuates more than 1.