SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[scirocco78]

Originally Posted by renfield90

If anyone is looking for CS legal wheels, my set of Kosei K4Rs (14.0lbs each) is for sale. $400 shipped. Nothing wrong with them except they're not wide enough for STX.

I'll take them

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by scirocco78

I'll take them

That was fast!

[86_Freak]

Hello! Thought I'd drop in since I'll likely be getting into C Street this year.

I have been going to auto-x events for about 10 years now and have been to Nationals four times. All my trips to Nationals have been in a shifter kart and I placed 4th in 2012, 2nd in 2013, and 4th in 2014. I took a year hiatus in 2015 to focus on road racing the kart, but I would like to get back into auto-x because I miss the thrill of figuring out a course in only three runs.

I have had my FR-S for a little over a year now and since the kart is a ton of work to get it prepped for only 6 minutes of run time, I might try my hand at C Street. I have taken the FR-S on a couple track days, but have never been on an auto-x course with it.

One question I did have, is stainless steel braided brake lines really not allowed in C Street? Since I take my FR-S out on road courses, I put SS lines on since it is a must in my book for track days. It is going to get really annoying to change the brake lines every time I do a track day.

Anyway, hope to see some of you on the grid!

Me at auto-x


Me at road racing


My FR-S as it sits. Nothing special. I'll be adding TRD springs, Koni shocks, front sway bar, and buying some auto-x wheels.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by 86_Freak

Hello! Thought I'd drop in since I'll likely be getting into C Street this year.

I have been going to auto-x events for about 10 years now and have been to Nationals four times. All my trips to Nationals have been in a shifter kart and I placed 4th in 2012, 2nd in 2013, and 4th in 2014. I took a year hiatus in 2015 to focus on road racing the kart, but I would like to get back into auto-x because I miss the thrill of figuring out a course in only three runs.

I have had my FR-S for a little over a year now and since the kart is a ton of work to get it prepped for only 6 minutes of run time, I might try my hand at C Street. I have taken the FR-S on a couple track days, but have never been on an auto-x course with it.

One question I did have, is stainless steel braided brake lines really not allowed in C Street? Since I take my FR-S out on road courses, I put SS lines on since it is a must in my book for track days. It is going to get really annoying to change the brake lines every time I do a track day.

Anyway, hope to see some of you on the grid!

Me at auto-x


Me at road racing


My FR-S as it sits. Nothing special. I'll be adding TRD springs, Koni shocks, front sway bar, and buying some auto-x wheels.

13.6 Brakes

A. The make and material of brake linings may be changed.
B. Substitution of clutch and brake hydraulic lines with solid metal or braided metal is allowed on all cars manufactured before model year 1992.
C. Alternate brake bleeder fittings (e.g., SpeedBleeders) are permitted. They may serve no other purpose.


Them's the rules, sorry.

[Iam not]

I also have a set of Kosei K4Rs (14.0lbs each) CS legal wheels for sale. Will sell for same price as renfield90 at $400, shipped.

I sold my FRS and went in a different direction. Will post to classifieds as well.

[Wahoo5]

Originally Posted by Iam not

I also have a set of Kosei K4Rs (14.0lbs each) CS legal wheels for sale. Will sell for same price as renfield90 at $400, shipped.

I sold my FRS and went in a different direction. Will post to classifieds as well.

PM sent.

[TMF]

Here's my random $0.02 from about the last month

Originally Posted by C4RBON

Wow those are expensive! The Bilstein adjustable coilovers are about $1500 less. I realize these are custom-made but still... I think I'd rather just get the coilovers and move up to STX.

Going from CS to STX is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1,500 to be competitive.

Originally Posted by Locust

Seriously the performance difference between the TRD equipped FR-S and the non-TRD FR-S/BRZ is not significant enough to warrant pushing it to B-Street. A lot of you are acting like it's a 1 second, for sure victory kind of advantage. Are you at a slight disadvantage? Yes. Is it too much to overcome with better driving? No.

There's not a single class in SCCA where there isn't at least one type of car at a disadvantage. It's impossible to make it fair for everyone.

Totally agree with you here.

Originally Posted by C4RBON

I don't think Street Classes are for beginners. Beginners typically race in street classes. Therefore, any action undertaken by the SEB to alter Street Class will dis-proportionally impact beginners, and care needs to be taken not to dissuade participation.

From my experience, most beginners show up with a car that has already been modded, and race in novice for starters. After they are kicked out of novice, they are bumped into some ridiculous class because of one little mod (lightweight flywheel? => street mod!). Then after a few seasons of getting whooped in an under prepped car, they prep it properly or sell it and buy something else. Ask me how I know

Originally Posted by Locust

Bet you that they're still faster because forged has a lot less flex than cast. Lightest forged wheel > lightest cast wheel.

I have a hard time agreeing with you on this one...I doubt cast vs forged makes an appreciable difference. At the same time, I doubt a 0.5 lbs difference in wheel weight will make an appreciable difference either. But a ~$500 purchase price difference does have an appreciable affect on the ol' bank account!

Originally Posted by Mr.Scion

Hi everyone!

My name is Alex, and I participate in a few regions here in the northeast.

Last season I participated in 3 regions and took place in about 5 regions. I started the year on an old set of star specs and bought the stones in early August. After the tires I bought a set of TRD springs and I really started to pull away from everyone. I just bought the MCS dampers from Strano last week and I'm waiting for them to be finished up.

So... I've been autocrossing for about 6 years, never showed up to any national events, and I had to pass nationals this year because I am finishing up my dissertation and didn't have the time. I attached a spreadsheet of my results from the season. You can see after I bought the bridge stones I was significantly more consistent. Although I placed 2nd in philly region, I can promise you I have him on his heels and plan on moving up with these new dampers.

Now that that is all out of the way. I look forward to following this thread. I may not contribute much, but I will read almost all the posts over time. Merry Christmas everyone and stay safe out there.

Holy poop, 32 events in one season, that's awesome!

Welcome to the thread.

Originally Posted by 86_Freak

H
One question I did have, is stainless steel braided brake lines really not allowed in C Street? Since I take my FR-S out on road courses, I put SS lines on since it is a must in my book for track days. It is going to get really annoying to change the brake lines every time I do a track day.

Proper, fresh, brake fluid and the appropriate brake pads makes a far bigger difference than stainless brake lines in my experience. I also doubt that stock brake lines have ever burst (save for an outside force, such as rubbing with other parts). IMO, I think you'd be best off putting the stock lines back on, and then swapping the appropriate pads for autox vs full track.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by vroom4

My jump from CS to stx cost me a net $3800.

I can throw a set of $300 lowering springs on a CS car and "jump" to STX too, doesn't mean I would win anything

What kind of STX build did you end up with for $3800? Just curious as I am about $7k into mine and I got a lot of used parts to keep costs down (see videos in sig for details).

Side note, glad I did not go back to CS and have to deal with the various street class dramas (Koni's legality, TRD parts, etc...mostly kidding)

[Jawnathin]

When I was building out what an STX car would cost me, the range varies by how far you want to go.

I think you can build an OK STX car for about $4-5k. Average quality coilovers, swaybar headers, tune, and OK wheels get you 90% of the way there. The extra 10% is where it starts to add up. Nice coilovers, light wheels, lighter brakes, race battery, race seats, intake, pulleys, fancy camber plates, etc.

A really nice build is around $9-10k. High end coilovers are about $4k of that.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

When I was building out what an STX car would cost me, the range varies by how far you want to go.

I think you can build an OK STX car for about $4-5k. Average quality coilovers, swaybar headers, tune, and OK wheels get you 90% of the way there. The extra 10% is where it starts to add up. Nice coilovers, light wheels, lighter brakes, race battery, race seats, intake, pulleys, fancy camber plates, etc.

A really nice build is around $9-10k. High end coilovers are about $4k of that.

Yea, I agree with you. My build is missing lightweight seats, aftermarket diff, and lightweight brakes, everything else is covered.

$10k seems to be about the norm' for a highly competitive build, this is my second STX build and my last one was about $10k too (little more actually because the e36 had lots of old wear items to replace).

Sorry for hijack, back to regularly scheduled CS discussion

[86_Freak]

Originally Posted by TMF

Proper, fresh, brake fluid and the appropriate brake pads makes a far bigger difference than stainless brake lines in my experience. I also doubt that stock brake lines have ever burst (save for an outside force, such as rubbing with other parts). IMO, I think you'd be best off putting the stock lines back on, and then swapping the appropriate pads for autox vs full track.

I have always done pads and brake lines on all my cars at the same time, so I don't have a good handle on how much the better brake pedal feel is attributed to the brake lines over the pads. But physically, it always just made sense to me that a plain rubber hose would expand more under pressure than a rubber hose encased in a steel mesh. Would it make much of a difference in auto-x? Probably not. But when I'm going triple digit speeds down the front straight on a road course, down hill, towards a hairpin (thinking of turn 2 at Hallett), I would like my entire braking system up to snuff. I bought RBF660 fluid, SS lines, and CarboTech HP10 pads for my FR-S when it had less than 4k miles on it because of this.

Regardless, I was mainly venting because now do I not only have to change pads and rotors when I go to a track day, I also have to change brake lines. But it's fine, I'm still looking forward to competing in CS.

[e1_griego]

If you're not going to nationals I wouldn't sweat it at all.

[Jawnathin]

Full Disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but I recall reading or hearing that the expansion of rubber brake lines were a thing of the past and not much of an issue with newer cars.

I would check in with people who road course a modestly prepared car regularly (similar to your street build) and see if they've had any problems with the factory brake lines. If they've reported no problems with OEM lines then go back to them and try for yourself.

Judging by your other post you will be attending National level events, I would not risk losing out on a big win or contingency money over something as silly as a brake line. Probably won't be protested but for someone who wants to move up a spot to win money or a trophy and a hard ass on rules they might throw down the paper. For locals it won't matter and no one would ever know.

[DocWalt]

FWIW I installed SS brake lines separate from other mods. They made absolutely no noticeable difference. Waste of money, IMO. The SS line are essentially just rubber lines with a stainless sheath that will protect from abrasion and resist some tiny amount of expansion. A big negative, they'll also hide rubber failure by not letting a rubber line balloon noticeably when there's a pinhole in the liner, so you can't feel or see the failure until the brake line bursts.