Final Verdict on FRS Transmission? Junk.

[B-R-Z]

No transmission problems here either. Some guy that I bought some interior parts off of earlier this year had transmission issues as well and I believe he went through 2 replacements and he then decided to get rid the car. Knock on wood.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Hi ya, Ddreder; sorry to hear you are disappointed in the transmission(s) of your FR-S.

I kind of get the feeling that you just may be doing a bit of an "apple-orange" comparison, when you compare a miata 5 speed MT to a FR-S, 6 speed MT.

I drove a miata 5 speed transmission for almost 90,000 miles and found it to be the best shifting transmission I ever owned. However, I found the 6 speed miata transmission to be quite a bit more finicky ....... sort of like my FR-S, 6 speed transmission.

I suspect that something about cramming that 6th gear in the box ...... makes it touchy.


humfrz

I agree. The 5 speed Aisin in the Miata was probably the best transmission I've ever felt. But the 6 speed AZ6 (which is the same base design that the FR-S uses) felt rather clunky and finicky in comparison.

[Ddreder]

Again thanks for all the comments guys. There is some good stuff in there.

But to all the guys that think its the driver not the car.. Really? How can someone have an issue in one car but not another? Wouldnt deductive reasoning point towards the car? Or is that just common sense..

Anyways I think it just boils down to I expect to much from this car. I was ruined by my miata in many aspects because of all of the things that it does better. So my reasoning would be that the brand new car would be better than the 25 year old turd.. But in many aspects its just not the case.

I have put about 500 miles on the new tranny and its getting better. But it still clunks and grinds like it just wants to explode.. It doesnt inspire me to push it harder. It just worries me that it could have another issue. And that stinks..

I dont know maybe I need to just go test drive a new miata and see fi I need to make the leap.. I just have so much invested in this damn FRS lol.

[Basket Case]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

I also think the transmission is pretty crappy. My 5th gear syncro went to crap at 21k miles. Got a new transmission under warranty I believe. After 40k miles on this, my throw out bearing went to crap. Had to get a new clutch. At 80k miles on this new tranmission, the 5th gear syncro grinds like crazy when going from 4th to 5th. Same issue as my older transmission.
It's safe to say it's the weakest link with this car.

ugh, don't want to hear that...I Had my transmission replaced with the exact same issue at 44,xxx miles and the new transmission still feels clunky and am scared that now that I'm out of warranty its going to happen again...

[jvincent]

Chiming in late to the thread.

I only ever have clunkiness/notchiness going from 1st to 2nd, and that's entirely on me. When I'm driving around town I tend to granny shift into second and that usually results in that notchy feeling.

If you either leave it in first for a few seconds at the same RPM or shift above 4K it pretty much always goes in smooth. The second gear syncro must just take time to get up to speed. I've never had any issues with other shifts.

[ZionsWrath]

Mine is definitely a bit clunky on the street, more when cold.

But it has always been smooth on track (high rpm shifting up and down) and that's all I really care about to be honest.

[jvincent]

Yep, never had an issue on track either. Not a lot of granny shifting going on there.

[Spartarus]

Some of your statement is right, but I have to argue with other parts of it.

Originally Posted by Ddreder

But to all the guys that think its the driver not the car.. Really? How can someone have an issue in one car but not another? Wouldnt deductive reasoning point towards the car? Or is that just common sense..

No. I can think of a perfectly good explanation for that. It goes like this: If the driver isn't very good, he will have good days and bad ones. He is inconsistent. Good day in one car, bad day in another.

1 more explanation involving the same bad driver... His poor driving and poor technique have already damaged his car, but he has gotten better with practice. He then drives his friend's undamaged car, and hey presto, no problems...!!!

To further my point, proper deductive reasoning is top-down logic aimed at eliminating all other possibilities to reach a conclusion. I presented 2 alternative possibilities from the same premise. Ergo, that was not deductive reasoning at all; rather, it was inductive. And flawed.

Originally Posted by Ddreder

Anyways I think it just boils down to I expect to much from this car. I was ruined by my miata in many aspects because of all of the things that it does better. So my reasoning would be that the brand new car would be better than the 25 year old turd.. But in many aspects its just not the case.

I also wish it was the case, but you are correct here. The argument has been hashed out over and over, and in many ways, this car is significantly worse than many older cars. Some of the engineers are trying hard, but they're fighting and losing an uphill battle. Drivers aren't 100% to blame. New cars are getting worse in a lot of ways, and more difficult to drive hard besides.

A few examples of how new cars are getting sh*ttier...

Direct-mount shifters are gone, replaced with these rubber-band feeling remote shifters. They lack feel and precision. NVH engineers are to blame. This change was totally unnecessary. I could argue that point alone for hours.

Engineers are heaping new technology into engines, but driveability continues its steady downhill march. Add direct injection, CFD-validated combustion chambers, higher compression, and this engine is still way down on power compared to a 20-year old version with lower compression and no DI, but the same bore and stroke (I'm referring to the 3sGE BEAMS engine) With a torque curve that's embarrassing to even acknowledge. All to meet the tier-2 emissions standards, which prioritize NOx over CO and CO2 by a ridiculous margin... And people wonder why VW was cheating.

Cars are getting FAT. I mean ludicrously fat. I'm horrified at how heavy cars are getting. Basic math and physics say that it's going to take a lot more power to haul that big fat ass around. Just an example off the top of my head to set the timeline: The Ford Mustang. In 1999, it weighed a clean 3069 lbs. by 4th gen, that was up to 3300 - 3600 for the v6/GT, more for convertibles and GT500's. By now, 2015, the mustang GT weighs 3705 lbs. That B*tch has gained half a ton in a decade and a half, and for what? Where IS all that weight? There are other great examples, as most other cars have followed suit. A sideline on that - the original '65 with an IRON BLOCK I6 WEIGHED HUNDREDS OF POUNDS LESS THAN THE FR-S.. HUNDREDS. I'll acknowledge that by comparison, it's frame was a wet noodle, but come on. 50 years of technology and all we've done is add more layers of stamped, spot welded steel.

Another great example - The wonderful old MR2s weighs 996 kilograms new. The brand-new "very innovative" Alfa Romeo 4C, simliar size, with a similar aluminum 4-banger weighs 996 kilos with a CARBON FIBER TUB. The MR-S was made of STEEL. WHY DO THEY WEIGH THE SAME? What the F*CK?! What, did they fill the wheels with LEAD?!? What's the point of expensive, exotic, lightweight materials if they don't reduce weight? The MR-S had power steering and padded seats for god's sake! The Alfa doesn't have either!

Originally Posted by Ddreder

I have put about 500 miles on the new tranny and its getting better. But it still clunks and grinds like it just wants to explode.. It doesnt inspire me to push it harder. It just worries me that it could have another issue. And that stinks..


I dont know maybe I need to just go test drive a new miata and see fi I need to make the leap.. I just have so much invested in this damn FRS lol.

You will be equally disappointed with a new Miata. It isn't just the FRS, it's all cars. They are getting much worse. The hype may draw you in just like it drew you to the FRS, but when the honeymoon is over and the issues start, you will be right back in the same place.

The issues that prompted this thread wouldn't have existed in the late 80s, 90s, and early 2000's. Throwout bearing what? My old '98 3RZ Taco is at 300K on the factory TOB and clutch, and it has been BEAT TO Sh*T. I bet this car would make it to about 45K with similar treatment before it sh*t the bed.

[Ddreder]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Some of your statement is right, but I have to argue with other parts of it.



No. I can think of a perfectly good explanation for that. It goes like this: If the driver isn't very good, he will have good days and bad ones. He is inconsistent. Good day in one car, bad day in another.

1 more explanation involving the same bad driver... His poor driving and poor technique have already damaged his car, but he has gotten better with practice. He then drives his friend's undamaged car, and hey presto, no problems...!!!

To further my point, proper deductive reasoning is top-down logic aimed at eliminating all other possibilities to reach a conclusion. I presented 2 alternatives from the same premise. Ergo, that was not deductive reasoning at all; rather, it was inductive. And flawed.



I also wish it was the case, but you are correct here. The argument has been hashed out over and over, and the in many ways, this car is significantly worse than many older cars. Some of the engineers are trying hard, but they're fighting and losing an uphill battle. Drivers aren't 100% to blame. New cars are getting worse in a lot of ways, and more difficult to drive hard besides.

A few examples of how new cars are getting sh*ttier...

Direct-mount shifters are gone, replaced with these rubber-band feeling remote shifters. They lack feel and precision. NVH engineers are to blame. This change was totally unnecessary. I could argue that point alone for hours.

Engineers are heaping new technology into engines, but driveability continues its steady downhill march. Add direct injection, CFD-validated combustion chambers, direct injection, higher compression, and this engine is still way down on power compared to a 20-year old version with lower compression and no DI, but the same bore and stroke (I'm referring to the 3sGE BEAMS engine) With a torque curve that's embarrassing to even acknowledge. All to meet the tier-2 emissions standards, which prioritize NOx over CO and CO2 by a ridiculous margin... And people wonder why VW was cheating.

Cars are getting FAT. I mean ludicrously fat. I'm horrified at how heavy cars are getting. Basic math and physics say that it's going to take a lot more power to haul that big fat ass around. Just an example off the top of my head to set the timeline: The Ford Mustang. In 1999, it weighed a clean 3069 lbs. by 4th gen, that was up to 3300 - 3600 for the v6/GT, more for convertibles and GT500's. By now, 2015, the mustang GT weighs 3705 lbs. That B*tch has gained half a ton in a decade and a half, and for what? Where IS all that weight? There are other great examples, as most other cars have followed suit. A sideline on that - the original '65 with an IRON BLOCK I6 WEIGHED HUNDREDS OF POUNDS LESS THAN THE FR-S.. HUNDREDS. I'll acknowledge that by comparison, it's frame was a wet noodle, but come on. 50 years of technology and all we've done is add more layers of stamped, spot welded steel.

Another great example - The wonderful old MR2s weighs 996 kilograms new. The brand-new "very innovative" Alfa Romeo 4C, simliar size, with a similar aluminum 4-banger weighs 996 kilos with a CARBON FIBER TUB. The MR-S was made of STEEL. WHY DO THEY WEIGH THE SAME? What the F*CK?! What, did they fill the wheels with LEAD?!? What's the point of expensive, exotic, lightweight materials if they don't reduce weight? The MR-S had power steering and padded seats for god's sake! The Alfa doesn't have either!



You will be equally disappointed with a new Miata. It isn't just the FRS, it's all cars. They are getting much worse. The hype may draw you in just like it drew you to the FRS, but when the honeymoon is over and the issues start, you will be right back in the same place.

The issues that prompted this thread wouldn't have existed in the late 80s, 90s, and early 2000's. Throwout bearing what? My old '98 3RZ Taco is at 300K on the factory TOB and clutch, and it has been BEAT TO Sh*T. I bet this car would make it to about 45K with similar treatment before it sh*t the bed.

You and your PhD in logic.. Dr. Ifthanbecuase!

Anyways you are right about a lot of things. Especially about buying a new miata.. I know the exact same thing will happen. But I just want it to be different.. Now that I have a new job I can finally afford parts for the damn thing so I thought maybe putting some money into it would make it better. But I feel like I am just investing in something I ultimately plan to get rid of at the right opportunity. Maybe I just need to start invest into my Miata fleet idea. One for every day of the week

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Ddreder

Again thanks for all the comments guys. There is some good stuff in there.

But to all the guys that think its the driver not the car.. Really? How can someone have an issue in one car but not another? Wouldnt deductive reasoning point towards the car? Or is that just common sense..

Anyways I think it just boils down to I expect to much from this car. I was ruined by my miata in many aspects because of all of the things that it does better. So my reasoning would be that the brand new car would be better than the 25 year old turd.. But in many aspects its just not the case.

I have put about 500 miles on the new tranny and its getting better. But it still clunks and grinds like it just wants to explode.. It doesnt inspire me to push it harder. It just worries me that it could have another issue. And that stinks..

I dont know maybe I need to just go test drive a new miata and see fi I need to make the leap.. I just have so much invested in this damn FRS lol.

Maybe just try putting a transmission insert from cusco, oversea it's really popular to use them to fix problem with stiff shift & it's only 60-70 bucks fix. Alot cheaper then getting a different tranmission mount like the STI one.

I had my complain with this transmission too, but it's mostly gone after I change the fluid to mutol. On top of that I just got used to what this transmission likes.....it's definitely not obedient like the nissan trans I'm used to before I got this car.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by Ddreder

You and your PhD in logic.. Dr. Ifthanbecuase!

Anyways you are right about a lot of things. Especially about buying a new miata.. I know the exact same thing will happen. But I just want it to be different.. Now that I have a new job I can finally afford parts for the damn thing so I thought maybe putting some money into it would make it better. But I feel like I am just investing in something I ultimately plan to get rid of at the right opportunity. Maybe I just need to start invest into my Miata fleet idea. One for every day of the week

I'm just being flippant because it's fun. Thanks for being good-humored about it. I just bought this thing for the neat looking chassis and sleeper potential.. The factory powertrain is out at the first opportunity. In with a much better, little older one and a proper good standalone.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by jvincent

If you either leave it in first for a few seconds at the same RPM or shift above 4K it pretty much always goes in smooth. The second gear syncro must just take time to get up to speed. I've never had any issues with other shifts.

In the case of waiting to shift at the same RPM, you're pausing, setting up, and shifting deliberately. Do exactly the same except pause in neutral for a second and I bet you'll get into an argument with second gear.

Shifting at higher RPM increases the speed difference between gearsets. You have that much longer to get through neutral and apply pressure to the target synchro.

In both cases, the best technique for upshifting a cold transmission is to get through neutral as quickly as possible and then gently apply pressure to the target synchro. If you miss the opportunity, double-clutch it. No need to be hamfisted. (not aimed at you, just in general)

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Ddreder

I have put about 500 miles on the new tranny and its getting better. But it still clunks and grinds like it just wants to explode.. It doesnt inspire me to push it harder. It just worries me that it could have another issue. And that stinks..

I wonder if something is up with the shift linkage. If there is constant pressure/tension on the shift forks in the transmission, then you can get strange wear on the synchros and probably does not feel right. Just a thought...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Ddreder

I have put about 500 miles on the new tranny and its getting better. But it still clunks and grinds like it just wants to explode.. It doesnt inspire me to push it harder. It just worries me that it could have another issue. And that stinks..

Just be patient. Learn good timing and double-clutch downshifts while it's breaking in. Give it a good 8000 miles. Not kidding.

The synchros have to lap together in order to really become effective. Maybe by being forceful they will break in more quickly but I chose the more touchy, sensitive route. I am thrilled with mine at 18000 miles. Long-term, I'll see if it was just temporary but I don't think so.