I'd like to share with you my story about Subaru customer service.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by tobin

Pat, sorry to hear this. Whichever route you pursue, I sincerely hope you get it straightened out. How far are you from Heuberger Motors? They have an established positive reputation on this site, and might be willing to help.

Hey Tobin, good to hear from you. I considered Heuberger for the work initially before any of this started. They are more than an hour away, and each of the dealers I have visited so far are about 15 minutes away. In retrospect, that is what I should have done. But I certainly did not anticipate this turning in to what it has.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by JGordon

Was this Go Subaru West off of Colfax? We bought my wife's Impreza there and our (limited) interactions with the dealership have all been pleasant. We had some work done on her car just out of warranty and they comped us some services that they didn't have to.

We're thinking about buying a new Outback in the next year or so, maybe we'll have to rethink which dealership we go to.

No. The first dealer is AutoNation on Arapahoe east of I25. The second is Groove on Broadway.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by stugray

He specifically stated that he is a driving instructor for NASA.
That is definitely outside of the expectation of "regular use".


So if we now believe that Subaru should warranty cars used for competitive racing instruction, I suppose we should let the guys at Subaru BRZ Stage 2 Nürburgring rental know this.....

I think you need to revisit the definition of "competitive" and "racing". People joke about "winning" HPDEs, ya know. Because they can't be won. Because they aren't competitive. And they sure as hell aren't a race.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Pat

I am confident it is just one more mistake that dealership made. They don't exactly run a tight ship.
I refuse to be anything other than open, honest and transparent when I work with people. If you think that is bad, you can consider it a personal flaw. Regardless of what they choose to think about what I do, I know the facts. I don't race and I don't drift, period. I bought the car. It is my car. If I choose to drive it on a race track that is my right. That does not change the terms of the warranty based on how I use it.

Yes, but don't assume it's just a screw up. If they really do have a part sitting there for you (like if it's the driveshaft they supposedly already replaced), you'd have a better leg to stand on with getting this fixed.


I understand you're honest, but things can definitely be misunderstood by the average person. Most people don't know the difference between driving instruction and racing, so yes it very well can impact your warranty...

Originally Posted by stugray

You certainly DO have the right to "drive it on a race track" just as the Dealer has the right to "deny warranty work" if they determine you have done so.

Now if you participate in a "open lapping day" and the car is 100% stock, then they should not be bitching.
But if they see evidence of racing pads, oil cooler, and big fat tires, then they have the right to question you.

Based on what you have said, you fall into the former category (as do I), so that should not be a factor of warranty work.

However you had a transmission shifting problem and you clearly had aftermarket shifting parts installed. I was surprised to hear that they agreed to give you a new one without a hassle.

Eh, those springs have nothing to do with the syncros, they only effect shifter return to center.

Originally Posted by Tectoniic

Just wanted to toss my 2 cents in the same ring as Tcoat after reading the entire OP.

Take this with a grain of salt but it is also very unprofessional to go and post all of these people's phone numbers/emails(is this called pulling a trump now?jk) as if you are trying to name and shame. No one on these forums needs to know who the mechanics, customer service, and every person involved was. You also cannot expect a mechanic to call you before every different thing are going to do to your car.

If something like this happened to me I would be livid too but posting it on the forums is not the way to go about. I still hope everything works out in the end.

Yes, it's definitely not unusual to have the mechanic call before work is done. Dealers usually try to separate the service writers and the mechanics, but the mechanic actually knows what's going on and there shouldn't be an issue with them calling before the work is done. He wasn't talking about every little thing, he was talking about one call before work was started, which never happened.

Originally Posted by Pat

First, the dealer does not have the right to deny warranty work if they determine I have driven it on a race track.
Second, using a different shifter spring had absolutely nothing to do with third gear grinding. They are unrelated. If you really understand how transmissions work you would not question this.

Depends on what was occurring at that track sadly. The issue is that you end up having the prove it was wasn't racing and probably having to do this through the legal system.

Originally Posted by stugray

So full of fail.
You got THREE facts wrong in that last post.

Straight from Subaru warranty:
Damage Caused Due to Use of Vehicle in Competitive Events: These warranties do not cover damage to any component that is the result of operating the vehicle in any competition or racing event.

They can claim that ANY damage is due to "racing" if they know you were "racing".
Everybody wants to claim "the Mangusson Moss act" blah blah.
That will ONLY APPLY if YOU choose to take them to court.
How often do you think that actually happens?



YOU are clueless and I rebuild transmissions as a hobby.
My current racecar has a MT rebuilt by me.

A hell of a lot of people go to court for this kind of stuff. It never goes to trial, it will be settled out of court, but you still have to get the ball rolling first.


Also, those springs only affect the shifter's return to center, but you should know this...

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

You're taking his statement a little personal... To be fair, HDPE is not "racing", it is largely considered a non-competitive instructional event. There's no semantics here, the very definition you posted specifically refers to competitive events, which this isn't.

Yes the shifter springs are a "shifting part" under a blanket statement. However saying these external shifter springs would cause a failure like this inside the transmission is like saying a weighted shift knob would also cause a failure. The only purpose of those ball detent springs is to keep the stick in position once it's already in gear; it doesn't change how the gear shifts, only how it feels. Blaming a synchro failure on this is a pretty big stretch.

Even still, the dealer has full discretion on whether they want to advocate for Subaru to support warranty work, so EVERYTHING is in a gray area. It only becomes black and white when there's a disagreement.

Yep, but this wouldn't be the first time people had to fight for warranty because the car was "raced" in the eye of dealership.

Originally Posted by Pat

I think you need to revisit the definition of "competitive" and "racing". People joke about "winning" HPDEs, ya know. Because they can't be won. Because they aren't competitive. And they sure as hell aren't a race.

100% agreed. Hell, I'm kinda mad at myself for not doing a HPDE yet since it's a smart move to be able to handle the car safely.

[ntron1]

Sorry OP, Sounds like you were a ****. I would not want to work with you either.

[tobin]

FWIW, I can personally vouch for Pat dating to the early 2000's AudiWorld era (before the site was sold off) when we both owned B5 Audis. Pat is both knowledgeable and informative, always willing to lend a hand to others. His take on this situation is very fair, and so far, it appears he has been getting the runaround from Subaru.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Pat

Driving a car on a racetrack does not constitute competition or racing. My insurance covers what I use my car for on a racetrack even though the wording is nearly identical to your quote.

I didnt say that their determination of whether your activity constitutes "racing" was correct, or even IF they made such a determination.
I merely said that they would be completely justified in questioning it after you said that you use the car in driving instruction.

Originally Posted by Pat

You may know more about the inner workings of transmissions than I do. You certainly seem to think so. I would love to hear from you a detailed explanation of how a shifter spring would affect the functionality of a synchro. Subaru certainly didn't seem to think it would.

Originally Posted by Poodles

Eh, those springs have nothing to do with the syncros, they only effect shifter return to center..

1 - What wears out synchros? - Not properly centering the shifter after a shift.
This is where the old warning to not rest your hand on the shifter comes from.

2 - What guarantees that the shifter is recentered after a shift? (see question #1).

WAS the aftermarket spring a problem? I dont know.
Would the dealer be justified in questioning the effect of the aftermarket springs on the tranny failure?
They sure as hell BETTER be if they know what they are doing.

[IBill4You]

File a lawsuit. I understand and agree with you. I also find it rather naive of you to have had the expectation that your warranty would be honored at all much less without tons of hoops to jump through and hassle to discourage you along the way. It sucks, but unless you file suit and add in legal fees, lost time with loved ones, emotional pain and suffering, maybe lost wages etc. Seek a settlement and learn your lesson.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by stugray

1 - What wears out synchros? - Not properly centering the shifter after a shift.
This is where the old warning to not rest your hand on the shifter comes from.

2 - What guarantees that the shifter is recentered after a shift? (see question #1).

WAS the aftermarket spring a problem? I dont know.
Would the dealer be justified in questioning the effect of the aftermarket springs on the tranny failure?
They sure as hell BETTER be if they know what they are doing.

Um, what? Syncros wear from trying to shift with the clutch engaged, trying to force it, or simply high speed differential. Resting your hand on the shifter does jack squat to the syncros, but it will wear the shift forks.


Sorry stu, but you're flat wrong here...

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Sorry stu, but you're flat wrong here...

Here is a FACT: the dealership would be 100% justified in denying warranty work for a damaged transmission THAT HAS ANY AFTER MARKET PARTS INSTALLED. I am amazed that anyone would argue otherwise. I think the dealer did the op a favor by agreeing to replace it.
AND If the trans has anything that causes an impediment to smooth shifts it can cause exess wear on the synchros. So you now know for a fact that the springs were installed correctly and not causing a problem. Sorry I wasn't aware that you personally inspected the trans. My apologies.

[mav1178]

My only question to Pat:

Do you think you did anything wrong in this situation? I see numerous places where you escalated an unnecessary situation.

-alex

[DoomsdayJesus]

I worked with Bob Black before on my 2013, and he's the reason I'm now driving a 2015. He's a good guy, give him time to work the process. I had the same transmission issue and a multitude of others with my 2013, the 2015 has been flawless (especially since I put Motul 300 in the transmission and Redline in the differential).

But yeah, the dealers can really suck, especially if they have little experience with the BRZ. I know I was basically screwed on my transmission at 5800 miles and was told that the replacement was a one time customer courtesy not covered by warranty due to abuse or modification with ZERO evidence or powertrain mods on the car. SOA and Bob helped me out an awful lot, and I discovered it was the "regional parts manager" who was sticking it to me.

Keep working with SOA and they'll get you straightened out. They do not like customer horror stories.

Edit: Also, dealers often refuse to work with aftermarket parts PERIOD. They are not obligated to remove or replace them. If they're giving you grief about the spring I would just remove it until the work is complete and then reinstall it. I've heard many stories in person and on these forums about dealers refusing unrelated work because they'd have to remove aftermarket exhausts or other simple items. So while they can't say it's not covered by the warranty, they also aren't obligated to work, remove, or swap aftermarket parts.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by Agent 86

For the most part, having purchased 19 cars over the years, I have found the dealership to be the weakest link when it come to customer satisfaction. I refuse to take our 2013 Subaru Outback to the dealer we bought it from simply because I don't have a good feeling about their service dept.

Ain't that the God's honest truth.

[Chupacabra]

Originally Posted by ntron1

Sorry OP, Sounds like you were a ****. I would not want to work with you either.

I suppose it's hard to read this when you don't have an idea for @Pat 's tone. He has a very calm demeanor and doesn't approach situations to make things difficult.

What you read was a point of frustration (which btw sucks hearing from him first-hand) with how the dealer didn't help resolve the situation. I'd probably think about it as if you were in his shoes, would it be easy to calmly assess?
Nah, we'd all get pissed off at some point and want to share our experience.

We're all a community that looks after one another here and I saw your name shows you as a 'sarcastic bastard' so maybe I completely missed your joke...