Controlling Oversteer?

[Neokolzia]

Definately know I need to take this to a parking lot to practice, I was on a backroad with some hairpins with traction and stability control off, trying to get ti to slip a little in the hair pins in Second.

I was very successful doing this but felt maybe the hairpin was done at too low, I was only entering at about 35-40 km/h, no e-brake of course and I have new ZR tires 205/45R17's that grip pretty hard.

I will definately not be shy to admit I'm new to all of this, this is my first sports style car, my first car was a Volvo 850 Turbo but that was fwd and very forgiving, not that the BRZ isn't but its obviously alot more of a machine and rwd.

So Going around the corner like this twice I tried to control the oversteer, reverse steering and adding gas, and I jsut found the tail went way to far out and then went into ocilation, which obviously makes you panic when it does that naturally so would have to quickly go to brake and clutch.

I'm looking to get most out of the car and control it to my best ability, so any advice would be awesome, obviously I need to find a empty parking lot without alot of attention so I can get wheels skidding a little bit to practice.

[HeadBanger]

I'll be a mature adult and say go to a track.


BUT


Go find an empty parking lot, or wait for winter.
Personally I find this car tricky to "drift". You need to already be above 5k rpm if you want to mash the gas to get a slide going. Otherwise you need to dump the clutch. Moderate the throttle input, as well as the steering. Don't crank the steering to full lock and go full throttle. You'll either spin, or it could snap back, and since your wheel is cranked over... well... hello ditch.


Start small.
Be patient.
And be prepared for anything.




Honestly, I found this car impossible to drift. The other day though I tried the pedal dance and it changed the car completely.
Don't even search the pedal dance for now. Practice a bit first.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

You need to be smooth and predictive. Personally I find these cars oversteer way too much stock, and even after modding mine it feels too oversteery at lower speeds.

[aznatama]

Are you trying to drift? or are you trying to control oversteer during grip driving?

[Neokolzia]

Originally Posted by aznatama

Are you trying to drift? or are you trying to control oversteer during grip driving?

I'm trying to control oversteer during grip driving I.E without Traction control on though, so I'm not limiting power in sharp corners. Which I imagine its the proper thing to do.

I'm not trying to drift the car, of course the comes with it, but I imagine one comes with the other to some degree

[aznatama]

if you're grip driving, you shouldn't be oversteering much if at all. Make sure you're taking the right line. From my understanding, if it's a flat hairpin, you'll most likely want to take a very late apex.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Neokolzia

I'm trying to control oversteer during grip driving I.E without Traction control on though, so I'm not limiting power in sharp corners. Which I imagine its the proper thing to do.

I'm not trying to drift the car, of course the comes with it, but I imagine one comes with the other to some degree

If you're on a public street with little/no run-off areas, I would leave traction control on. You can see the light buzzing on your dash when it activates. A good first step would be practicing applying as much power coming out of a corner as you can without tripping the light.

The trick will be rolling on the power gently (e.g., squeezing a lemon) starting at apex, while unwinding the steering. The better you are at doing this, the more throttle you'll be able to apply without triggering traction control.

It's important to get the basic concept down first. Once you get the hang of that, then experiment with sport mode or TC/VSC off (the latter, preferably at a track). Note: if you turn everything off, make sure you are ready to countersteer and do not lift.

The good thing about leaving TC/VSC on or in sport mode while you're first learning is it will save you before you put your car into a tree or ditch on a public road. But you can still visibly see the light when it activates, so it's a good learning tool.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by aznatama

if you're grip driving, you shouldn't be oversteering much if at all. Make sure you're taking the right line. From my understanding, if it's a flat hairpin, you'll most likely want to take a very late apex.

I think he means he is trying to induce oversteer to practice correcting it. That way when it happens to him unexpectedly during grip driving, he can react properly.

[Akari]

The quickest way around the corner will be without loss of traction(AKA oversteer), but I do agree that it's something that should be practiced if you plan to drive at the edge of traction. Everyone misjudges corners, road surfaces, tire temperatures, etc occasionally and controlling oversteer is really quite simple in our cars once you're used to it.

Personally I never felt comfortable with it until I had some time on a skidpad where I learned that my corrections were too unsmooth to maintain control. If there's a local track nearby or autocross group I'd suggest you reach out and ask how they can help. Most organizations would be all for you finding the limits of your car in a safe, controlled fashion.

[ashtray]

A few things:

You're in Canada - are the tires Summer tire or all season? Bc if they're Summer rubber, you'll find out pretty soon about that back end passing you even on a straight road.

Second - did you say "brake & clutch" when the back end got loose?! Don't do that, just don't. Unless you can somehow control which wheel you are applying braking to - oh, like the stability control does which you've turned off! Braking while in an oversteer will likely cause the back end to swing around even faster. You can ease off the gas but depending on the situation I wouldn't suggest lifting fully. You'd just be shifting weight around rapidly and causing the car to be more out of sorts.

Counter steering should be done smoothly but also at the proper speed. The back end steps out quickly, you react quickly. It steps out slowly, you counter slowly.

The car is nicely balanced for "drifting" but you need the right tires too. Some times have lots of grip and then none. Other tires lose grip more gradually so you feel the back end start to slide and you have lots of time to control it. The problem with super grippy tires is that when they give out, there's usually little warning, and you're cornering at a decent clip.

Practice in the rain, on WIDE roads or parking lots, AWAY from other cars or objects you can hit - including curbs. Anticipate that you'll spin the car and make sure doing so wouldn't hit anything. If there's a chance of going off the road, hitting another car, etc, find a different spot to practice.

Car control is important. Knowing how your car will react and having the experience to change your input without the need to think about it is important for when you need this skill. (snow, etc)

[stonenewt]

In the UK you can buy car-control tuition days. 2-on-1 & 4-on-1 days are good for generic tuition, but for much more focused tuition 1-on-1 is best but expensive. I absolutely love these days & have a favourite tutor I make repeat visits too.

Last time I was with a guy wanting to learn drifting but I'm more about handling correction etc. He tied this together with trying to get me mastering balancing a car out using the throttle & brake in unison mid-corner. Advanced stuff & hard but immensely rewarding on the 10-20% of times I actually get it right.

[dalli]

I drove this car in about 4 or 5 winter storms and about 3 to 5 hours each in NYC/Pennsylvania and Upstate NY. This is all with the stock tires and with the nannies on.

Its doable but I learned a lot about oversteer. I never spun i guess thanks to Gran turismo. Ye sure you can wait till winter in an empty parking lot or on your daily commute. I wouldnt suggest it though. I was scared all the time not for me but others around me. What if i spun and hit another car and caused something really really bad.

I acutally havent taken off the traction control system since i got the car. I do even with all seasons Michelin sports lose the rear end at times but only when driven really hard(high rpms) to the speed limits of the city/town.

[zc06_kisstherain]

all i can say is practice. even experienced drivers panic and step on driving. they just knew what would happen ahead so car can be controlled.

when winter comes and snow, go find empty parking space and practice, it will be much easier than doing on dried condition road.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by Neokolzia

I'm trying to control oversteer during grip driving I.E without Traction control on though, so I'm not limiting power in sharp corners. Which I imagine its the proper thing to do.

I'm not trying to drift the car, of course the comes with it, but I imagine one comes with the other to some degree

Sounds like you experienced a baby tank slapper if you are describing the "oscillation". You have correctly figured out what you need to do. Now you just need to practice.

Check out this thread and in particular the Chris Harris video in the thread, a guy who knows how to drive sideways:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74169

Ironically, less grip makes this easier to learn up to a point. In winter we can play around with this car not using full throttle and explore the limits of drift angle before the car goes "over the top" and spins out. The correct technique to drift a car is just short of spinning out.

On wet roads this is a bit trickier but still easier than on warm dry road.

On dry road it helps if there is a little gravel, sand or even dust on the road surface.

A full tank slapper involves oversteer in one direction, towards the outside of the bend, and over correction to control the drift angle which causes the tires to bite and kick the car in the opposite direction. Do this abruptly enough and the car will actually oversteer in the other direction which in the middle of a bend can be very disconcerting.

It takes coordination of the throttle and the steering angle to initiate, catch and hold the correct drift. If you overcorrect by backing out of the throttle you will experience that oscillation effect. If you over correct by winding off steering lock too quickly as the car comes back at you then you can actually induce the oscillation.

Smooth coordination between the steering angle changes and the throttle are the secret.

In the old days racing cars had to be drifted to be quick because the tires were no good. Nowadays a drift is for fun only, and for learning car control skills in case you end up in an unplanned oversteering attitude. Drifting is slow and fast drivers do not do it any longer.