My SCCA National budget RTR build

[SeanRTR]

Did the Peru national Match tour two weekends ago...actually did a time trials event on Friday, got some limited sleep, and hit the road at 4 AM to just barely make Saturday registration before it closed. I was dead tired, but running strong on adrenaline....maybe a good thing C-Street ran first heat.

My Rivals still had some heat from 4 hour drive, and temps were cool at 9 AM, around 63 degrees. First run was good enough to top all all other C-Street runs for the day, and took the win a 48.4:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-tomZid4h8&list=UUZcLwIZD4WvPIyX40KOF8QA"]Sean Grogan 2014 Peru Match Tour C-Street Saturday run 1 - YouTube[/ame]

Ran the typical setup, staggered Rivals, which are driven daily and have a TON of miles on them. My tires were clearly the most worn out of any car in the field, the rears had barely any tread left at all, and the shoulders on the fronts are completely gone. Very happy these tires can still win at the national level at full depth, or no depth after several cycles. 31.5 PSI all around, shocks 1 full turn from full soft front and rear.

First run I was on the limiter in 2 different spots... I tried using 3rd gear in multiple spots on my next 3 runs, and while those raw times would have all been enough to win the class, they weren't quite as good as the first run riding the limiter.

Sunday I got to sleep in (and I needed after a long night of adult entertainment) and went into the challenge against an SSR Corvette, I ran 48.5 on the first run and won easily.... I slowed down after that, but still advanced to the final round after beating an STS Miata, but was beaten in the heat finals against Sam Strano. Great event, and glad to take home two more BFG tires.

I ran Tim Moyer's BRZ in fun runs and his 235/40/17 square dunlop setup felt great as well....the turn in seemed more crisp, and the mid corner grip was great too....staggered rivals felt more stable in the slalom. His Nameless exhaust was louder and easier to hear, power felt the same. His EBC yellowstuff pads have more initial bite than my Stoptech pads, but haven't figured out if that's a good or a bad thing on these cars yet.

Next big even is the Wilmington Northern championship tour. Probably do some bullshit events from here and there. Sounds like I'm ordering up another set of staggered Rivals, despite everyone thinking I'm crazy.

[jprice130]

Thanks for the continued updates and for sharing your setup approach. I think it's awesome that you're going with a "non-standard" setup and winning. I ran the same staggered setup in C-Stock with Hoosier A6s in 2012 and thought it was fantastic. Everyone thought I was crazy too, but I really liked it with the stock sway bars.

With that said, I did later move to a Whiteline 20mm front bar (on soft setting) and a square 245/40 A6 setup and I did feel like that was slightly faster for me. Then again, I was still running stock shocks and not Konis like you. Either way, nice driving and I look forward to seeing how your staggered setup works against the "traditional" setups at Nationals.

[SeanRTR]

More updates from the weekend:

Attended the local Detroit SCCA 2 day event in Oscoda Michigan. About 90 cars, tight knit group, a lot of fun.

Day 1 we did our local 'pro solo'. I haven't done this event in years, and I was beyond impressed with how much it's improved. We essentially have all the equipment, timing, software and crew to be able to run a legit Pro Solo. I run in the PRO index class, so the I happened to be paired up against a lightly modded '94 CP Mustang: Check out the video:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm8mlY-evcw&list=UUZcLwIZD4WvPIyX40KOF8QA"]Det Scca 7/19/14 Sean Grogan Oscoda Pro (style) Solo - YouTube[/ame]

I tried the car with much stiffer shock settings front and rear, but a similar 'delta' between the front and rear. The car felt good, was a bit loose at times though. 31.5 PSI in the Rivals.... The Rivals felt much better on the first two runs, compared to the second two runs. These tires can handle the heat, but don't like to be tortured....
I was amazed to finish 7th of 91 cars at the Pro
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...mM&usp=sharing

I still say this car is just not a very good car at a Pro Solo....the launches are very uninspiring, and it just doesn't get the blood flowing even compared to my FSP Neon at a Pro.

Day 2 we ran a standard solo, longer course, 4 runs each. I didn't do so well.... Street tires are never that great on concrete, but the Race tire cars really walked away on index at this event. I generally run very similar (sometimes faster) times than a fully prepped STX RX-8 in our regiion....well he put on a set of BFG RS race tires, and beat my raw time by over THREE seconds. The Oscoda concrete does not seem to like street tires. I was the second fastest car on index on street tires, with an STR Miata finishing just ahead of me. I dialed down my shock settings from Saturday, but slowly turned them up in the rear throughout the day, and finally going 1/4 from full stiff all around in my final run.... I honestly couldn't really see a noticeable difference on this particular day, as my runs were 46.1, 46.3, 46.1, and 46.1
Video:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNSR_OQR4k&list=UUZcLwIZD4WvPIyX40KOF8QA"]Oscoda Michigan, Sean Grogan Sunday 7/20/14 Run 4 - YouTube[/ame]
Sunday PAX: (12th of 80)
http://detroit-scca.org/e107/e107_fi...ax_results.pdf

I can say that my BFG's are likely completely dead. My rear tires are smoother than the rear decklid now, and will probably be chorded on my next high speed run through the roundabouts near my house. The fronts aren't much better. I never have any grip at Oscoda on street tires, so I don't know how much they've actually fallen off.

I've ordered up another set of Staggered Rivals to use that Wilmington Northern States championship next weekend (Rallycross this weekend in MR2). More updates then.

[SeanRTR]

Long time no update....

I did the Wilmington Match Tour, and really struggled. I thought the visuals were just terrible, but I blame myself for trying to 'wing' it like I did in Peru, with nearly no course walks....and it just wasn't meant to be. You can't compete at this level and expect to show up hung over, not walk the course and not take the competition seriously and expect to win. Live and learn.

I recently picked up a second hand set of RPF1's with 35% worn Dunlop ZII's, as I had a feeling Rivals just weren't going to work at nationals, just like in 2013. I'm glad I made that purchase.... The size is a 235/40/17 square setup.

2014 Nationals:
Rolled in to nationals directly from a local event, where I tried my ZII's.... Paxed 2nd out of 80ish cars on a very small asphalt lot, lost to a GS MK6 GTi on Rivals...really didn't have much of a chance on this particular course that lacked any kind of transitions, but I got a feel for the ZII's, and hit the road and drove 12 hours from the event to Lincoln on the Dunlops. (my Rivals were waiting for me at Lincoln, thanks two to a fellow FSP Neon driver, and two cases of Labatt Beer)

Monday: Test N Tune
Rolled out to the test n tune, and right off the bat the car felt pretty good, much easier to drive than last year: Had no idea on ZII pressures, so I guessed, and tried between 32 and 37 PSI.
Run1: 40.5xx
Run2: 40.6xx
Run3: 40.6xx
Run4: 40.6xx

Pretty consistent, but I felt like the tires were quite greasy right after the first run. (I did not bring a tire sprayer) I was driving the course better, but not enough to over come the tires falling off.

We swapped to the VERY fresh (3 runs) Staggered 245/225 BFG Rival setup for two more runs.
Run 1: 41.5
Run 2: 41.3

The car felt terrible. The turn in (on this surface) was miserable on the Rivals. It made me think how I even managed to take a trophy at all in RTR last year on these tires at this site. The car would understeer on turn-in, and instantly SNAP to big oversteer once you get on the gas. The slalom was a constant struggle to keep momentum while controling 4 wheel drifts back and forth. I knew after two turns on the first run that these tires weren't going to work.... Run 2 was a miracle it even ran 41.3, but the Rivals were simply 8 tenths slower than the Dunlops on a 40 second course...and were significantly more difficult to drive on, in every aspect.

I hit Home Depot that night and picked up a tire sprayer, then went back to the site and did a couple of course walks before it was pitch black....then proceeded to hit the Canadian's regional tent, and drank some awesome micro beer that I'd otherwise never have the oppourtunity to drink. Also played some Gran Turismo 6 split screen, that was projected on the entire side of a white enclosed trailer. Despite not playing GT with a controller in about 5 years, I wasn't defeated and hoped to carry that success into Day 1.

Day 1 Nationals:
I decided on 35 PSI Front, and 34 PSI rear on the Dunlops. (these tires don't seem as sensitive to pressures as the Rivals were) Shocks were 1 1/4 turns from full soft front, 3/4 from full soft in the rear.

Run 1: 61.5xx

(this video is unedited and un-trimmed to allow a view of a distracting ass that I was parked near, and a look at all of the CS cars in the grid)
Run 2: 61.6xx
Run 3: 61.7xx

We sprayed the tires down heavily between runs, and the tires didn't fall off as much on the Test N Tune course, but they weren't quite as good as they were on the first run. I made some improvements on my line on the course, but car was somewhat loose on some sections, and I feel I probably scrubbed too much time off, and the times were slightly slower. I dropped rear PSI to 33 on the rear, and took 1/8 turn out of rear shock, and added a 1/4 turn to the front...but again times didn't show improvement. I thought it about after the event, that all the corners I was loose on, were right handers....Well it was 90 degrees without a cloud in the sky, and the left tires were BAKING in the sun all day....even with constant watering, there's no way we fully cooled the carcass, even after just one run. I have some ideas for improved tire cooling tomorrow:
CS final day 1 results:
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/results/Tues%20West%20Results3.pdf
It should be noted that the FR-S in 5th, .01x ahead of me was on a Square FEDERAL tire setup... I actually question the legitimacy of his fast run, as his other two runs were a DNF, and 1.3 seconds slower. We will see tomorrow. If it is legit, hats off to you sir for going fast on some weird-ass Chinatown Federal tires. I'm impressed.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by Arigh

So Sean, will you be carrying the square setup ZII's back into local events, or do you just prefer it because the rivals don't work at nationals?

I think I need more testing. I honestly feel that certain compounds are going to be strive at different sites, and it's not as easy as saying, 'The Dunlops are faster.' I need to be more ambixious and start taking advantage of the down time between runs as a single driver at local events and trying both compounds back to back.

In Peru, I drove Tim Moyers car in fun runs on the tires I'm now running at nationals (ZII), and even though I had already won the Match Tour by nearly a full second on BFG's, (in an altered reverse course layout) the Dunlops felt like they turned in a lot better than the Rivals. The mid corner grip on that site felt slightly off the BFG's, and the staggered setup seemed to handle the slalom a bit better, but I'm not convinced the BFG's were better on that surface than ZII's. That same weekend, I know for a fact that Chris Harvey switched from RS3 V2's on Saturday, to ZII's on Sunday, and picked up 7 or so tenths, and I thought he's been running ZII's ever since.

I think there's a lot of undiscovered data out there that people have not yet figured out (or shared) regarding which tires work, on what kind of surfaces. It's not as easy as saying, 'BFG's on Asphalt, and ZII's on concrete.' You almost need to test each surface back to back, and then report back with detailed pictures of the surface characteristics, so those 1000 miles away can compare your findings with a similar looking surface that they run on locally.

I have one local site that has a similar concrete make-up as Lincoln, and the Rivals didn't seem to be all that great on that particular site.

I'm not bailing on the Rivals, as they support our program (unlike Dunlop) and the tires are proven winners at several other sites all across the country. These guys that think they have tune their car on only one compound of tires all year long, on multiple surfaces are going to be selling themselves short on success.

I should sleep, there's a 55 car race tomorrow.

[SeanRTR]

Nationals Day 2
Wednesday was much cooler than Day 1, around low 70 something degrees, very humid, cloudy when we ran. Heat was not nearly as much of an issue.

Run 1
66.9xx
Run 2
66.1xx

Run 3
66.3xx

As you can see the car is on the limiter in three spots, and it's on there quite a bit through these sections, and all but one (the second spot going into the right sweeping hair-pin) doesn't really have a decent brake zone to heel-toe to second gear.

Let me know if you see any places of improvement on these runs, as well if you think third gear would have been of any help. If I had a fourth run, I would have tried it, but I'm not sure in which spots. I honestly thinkt the 235/40 tires were not helping me here...the 235/45 were probably the hot ticket to avoid the rev limiter.

Also, I was completely wrong about the FR-S driver who placed 9th just behind me. He went outside the box and showed up on the Federal Tires and he was very successful on them, hats off to him for a great showing.

[7thgear]

which model of the federals?

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

which model of the federals?

http://www.federaltire.com/en/produc...ts_detail_sn=5

[DylanFRS]

Thanks for posting up your videos Sean. Helps me a lot.

[7thgear]

140 tread... I wonder if THEY will adjust for next year?

[TRev]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

140 tread... I wonder if THEY will adjust for next year?

Danny Kao has been in contact with Federal's marketing and it sounds as though their primary market focus is Europe and they don't have an interest in trying to break into the US market so it is not likely. Federal is aware of the 200 rating change and what it means to us.

I ran the Federals most of the year. They are best on lower grip surfaces such as asphalt as they have very good longitudinal grip. My 60's at the Pro were regularly a tenth better with them over the Hankooks or Z2's. They also wear well and IMO could easily be considered a 200 treadwear tire. They are also VERY inexpensive. Lastly, they seem to work really well in cool temps. The bad of them is they are heavy, get poor MPG...about 3MPG on average. They have a tread splice issue which Federal is aware of and working on. The splice looks bad at first but has not gotten worse on any of my tires and not significant enough to effect performance. They collect more OPR than the Hankook but it doesn't seem to effect the performance like the BFG's. They eventually seem to heat cycle out a bit but not bad. My 150 run, few thousand street mile set that is at 2/32nd's has fallen off a few tenths or so.

I ran both the Federals and Hankooks at the Pro. I ran the Federals all day Saturday and switched to the Hankooks on Sunday AM as the car was pushy and I am still on stock shocks so adjustment changes are not easy. I immediately dropped .5 seconds on the Hankooks and managed a dirty run that was 1 second faster on the right course. The lateral grip of the Hankook is definitely superior IMO as long as heat is sufficient. On surfaces such as Lincoln with courses that are not Pro like, I would choose the Hankook over the Federal after my experience at the Pro. I think they would have been a bit closer had I been able to tune shocks to get the car to rotate though.

[bimmer635csi]

Originally Posted by TRev

I think they would have been a bit closer had I been able to tune shocks to get the car to rotate though.

Your car doesn't rotate? What have you done to it that causes that? Mine rotates so much I'm running wider rear tires to tame it.

[TRev]

Originally Posted by bimmer635csi

Your car doesn't rotate? What have you done to it that causes that? Mine rotates so much I'm running wider rear tires to tame it.

Apologies, I should have clarified that I am running a Focus ST this year and not my BRZ so it is not apples to apples. It would definitely help keep the rear of the Twins planted but the weight of the tire (especially where the car gets into the torque dip) and loss of lateral grip may be a wash or negate the benefit. I definitely would have tried the Federals given their cost and due to running on asphalt at local events. The Hankook up front and the Federal in back might be a good combo on the Twins.

[vroom4]

Originally Posted by bimmer635csi

Your car doesn't rotate? What have you done to it that causes that? Mine rotates so much I'm running wider rear tires to tame it.

Bigger front bar.