P&L Header install, review and impressions

[dp1]

Originally Posted by puma

who tuned your ECM and are you using ecutek?

Ecutek by @JuniorAWD. Worked well at WGI track this Mo/Tu. Will go to moto-mike in PA this Saturday to try his tune and replace my ACT flywheel/clutch with Exedy Stage 2 (8-puck). Nothing wrong with tune by Jr, just want to try both.

[dp1]

Quick update, my car was tuned by Mike @moto-mike yesterday. They took time to evaluate the existing tune and check that mechanically everything was sound since my car wasn't making the power it should have. They discovered a header leak due to the two missing nuts (out of three) on the passenger side of the header, burnt header cat (they cut it open, removed the debris and shrunk cat element to prevent clogging in the future, welded shut, then re-tuned), and a slightly bent flange on the front pipe that will be flattened and fixed later.

New tune...simply amazing...had no idea what this setup (JR SC/P&L/Perrin) was capable of...completely different car. My exhaust tips and rear of the car don't have the carbon build up I had before, oil temps came down (we also changed to euro Castrol 0w30), and the power delivery is amazing, very linear. Mike walked me through every step of the tuning process, made me very comfortable. Delightful experience.

[xwd]

What was the deal with the cat? I'd like some more info on that. I'm running the black coated header with a cat. Fitment after the initial issue is great.

Also running a moto-east tune right now and like it quite a bit.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by dwx

What was the deal with the cat? I'd like some more info on that. I'm running the black coated header with a cat. Fitment after the initial issue is great.

Also running a moto-east tune right now and like it quite a bit.

Don't know, could have been because of a defective unit (less likely) or the old tune (if flames were coming from the engine), pure speculation. The second cat on the front pipe looked good. Didn't have it for that long, perhaps for several thousand miles between the two cars it was on, and 3.5 HPDEs (track days). I heard that a cat so close to the header usually doesn't last that long, and that coating that cat can make the lifespan even shorter. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm not an expert. I wouldn't have the header catted if I were to do it again, though I like quieter exhausts...dual cats help...it's louder now when on power but good sound and tolerable, not loud when cruising.

[dp1]

Update: ordered a new P&L header return pipe, this time without a cat, also new P&L catted front pipe, to make sure that at least one cat is in good condition. Mike will touch up the tune right after he installs these components, just to make sure everything is optimal. I wonder if I should also replace the Perrin muffler, given how much black soot was coming out of the exhaust before.

[FearBoy]

Thanks for the updates, dp1. Waiting for P&L to chime in on the cat issue...

[F1fletch]

I too am curious what P&L says about the cat issue.

[dp1]

It's very very unlikely that the header cat was defective. It shrunk so much and so many small pieces from the cat element came out of both pipes with cats from the header cat element roasting that it was much more likely related to the tune. I had noticed that the area in the engine bay around the header cat would get very hot after even relatively short drives but I thought that was normal.

[FearBoy]

Originally Posted by dp1

It's very very unlikely that the header cat was defective. It shrunk so much and so many small pieces from the cat element came out of both pipes with cats from the header cat element roasting that it was much more likely related to the tune. I had noticed that the area in the engine bay around the header cat would get very hot after even relatively short drives but I thought that was normal.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't think it was their fault. I guess I wanted to have P&L comment to show concern and stand behind their product.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by FearBoy

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't think it was their fault. I guess I wanted to have P&L comment to show concern and stand behind their product.

My pleasure. I think their exhaust components are superb and I'm sticking with them. They use the same quality hi-flow cats as many others, forgot the name. My car pulls like crazy across a pretty wide RPM range with JR SC + P&L + Perrin 2.5" and custom tune from Mike @moto-east.

[FearBoy]

Originally Posted by dp1

My pleasure. I think their exhaust components are superb and I'm sticking with them. They use the same quality hi-flow cats as many others, forgot the name. My car pulls like crazy across a pretty wide RPM range with JR SC + P&L + Perrin 2.5" and custom tune from Mike @moto-east.

My finger has been hovering over the buy button on their site. I am looking at the EL catted header and overpipe. I am keeping the stock front pipe and I have the Perrin 2.5" catback. I plan on staying naturally aspirated though.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by FearBoy

My finger has been hovering over the buy button on their site. I am looking at the EL catted header and overpipe. I am keeping the stock front pipe and I have the Perrin 2.5" catback. I plan on staying naturally aspirated though.

This is pretty much the exact setup I plan on going with as well, except a Tomei 60S catback. It will be awhile before I get it though, but I'd be very interested to see how yours turns out!

[reeves]

Originally Posted by FearBoy

Thanks for the updates, dp1. Waiting for P&L to chime in on the cat issue...

could be an issue with FI generating much more heat than N/A applications too, along with the tune. The cat on the P&L header actually looks further down from the exhaust ports than most other catted headers because of how the piping is routed. My catted header has been fine going on 35K miles now.. no FI for me though.

[Xero-Limit]

Just a little note for folks to clarify the cat issue. In this case the car really didn't have many miles on it, and only a track day or two. But what we saw is what we see of a FI car with dozens of track days and tens of thousands of road miles. When this happens it is usually not a defect, but the result of having ignition timing that is too retarded, or a way out AFR. Both cause unusually high EGTs which melt the metallic substrate in the catlyzer.



This is NOT a P&L issue. Nearly every aftermarket header manufacturer uses the same cats these days. While they are a wear item, they should last much longer than the dp1's experience here. You do have to be careful tuning with a header cat. In this case even the secondary cat appeared to be damaged as it was loose and rattling around.

We actually tuned with the melted cat first, little did we know until pulling the overpipe off that this was happening. If you look at the right angle you still could see through the cat, but the car picked up another 25hp or so after pulling the damaged unit out.