Tracking with Forced Induction

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, first things first.

Your steering wheels control the front tires, the gas pedal controls the rear tires.

If you're coasting through a corner, you're only controlling half of your car. You got power oversteer there, after understeering from coasting through the corner. Balance the car with the throttle.

Your suspension setup may or may not be prone to understeer period, while you just simply overpower the rear tires with sheer power, causing the oversteer. I can't diagnose without more information

Looks like I just need throttle work and modulating the throttle with tapping instead of slamming on it, practice makes perfect for now!

Thanks!

[DriftHappens]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

Looks like I just need throttle work and modulating the throttle with tapping instead of slamming on it, practice makes perfect for now!

Thanks!

squeezing more than tapping.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Street driving, we're usually sitting at around 170-175F.

There are two coolant sensors on the car.

As far as I am aware ecutek only logs one "Coolant Temp" and my p3cars gauge only has one "COOLANT" reading. This is the one I am referring to in my post.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

As far as I am aware ecutek only logs one "Coolant Temp" and my p3cars gauge only has one "COOLANT" reading. This is the one I am referring to in my post.

There's two "coolant temp" in Ecutek; go to the second expansion menu and activate it!

I've read using multiple loggers, gauges, OBD2 bluetooth units with Android/ios software, and our numbers are fairly consistent throughout mulltiple cars...

[Bl1tzkr1eg]

Originally Posted by HRTROB

Yep we were at the track this weekend. We both did three laps together, I reached 111C coolant temp while @Bl1tzkr1eg reached 100C. Mine was taken from the OBD port while he got his data from his gauge with the water temp sensor hooked up to the upper radiator hose.

@bli1tzkr1eg has an aftermarket grille which has a bigger opening which could explain the lower coolant temp. We have the same setup, Vortech SC, Koyorad and 6MT

Relocated my plates, removed the white styro inside the bumper and changed the grille.

The new grille allows more air to pass through as it has more openings than the stock one.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Bl1tzkr1eg

Good thing about an SC is that power is linear, so you dont get a sudden surge of power like u get when on turbo. It's just like you're running a bigger engine.

Why is it that the SC owners don't seem to understand what the word linear means? In order to have "power is linear" you have to have a flat torque curve. I have yet to see a single SC kit that has a flat torque curve. They always build boost/torque as RPM increases producing a non linear power curve. What you have is a more linear boost/torque curve. It isn't like a bigger engine because you still don't have any low end torque as your torque peak isn't till when close to max boost is hit in the upper RPM range.

[Ironsquid]

Originally Posted by HRTROB

I observed this too. There are times when the fans will turn on at 92C and turn off at 88C, and times that they turn on when coolant temp reaches 96C (had my tuner lower it from 100C) then turn off when it goes down to 92C.

The ECU uses the fan control to warm up the oil temps. If oil is proper temperature the fans will operate as normal above 196F. If your oil temps are too low, the fans will kick on at about 212F.

This is mostly what I've observed.

[Ironsquid]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Why is it that the SC owners don't seem to understand what the word linear means? In order to have "power is linear" you have to have a flat torque curve. I have yet to see a single SC kit that has a flat torque curve. They always build boost/torque as RPM increases producing a non linear power curve. What you have is a more linear boost/torque curve. It isn't like a bigger engine because you still don't have any low end torque as your torque peak isn't till when close to max boost is hit in the upper RPM range.

That's because every car forum from the 1980s til now said so. SC>TURBO BRO KK?? FLAT TORQUE COME AT ME

[Carolina Dyno]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@Carolina Dyno's shroud, with the biggest 12" fan you can fit.

Thanks Mike, we are working on getting more of these in stock as I'm typing this. We have been selling a bunch.

We do have the shroud only available but our standard option fan is on a national back order, we should have plenty the first or second week of June.

[AllDayJonRay]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Why is it that the SC owners don't seem to understand what the word linear means? In order to have "power is linear" you have to have a flat torque curve. I have yet to see a single SC kit that has a flat torque curve. They always build boost/torque as RPM increases producing a non linear power curve. What you have is a more linear boost/torque curve. It isn't like a bigger engine because you still don't have any low end torque as your torque peak isn't till when close to max boost is hit in the upper RPM range.

I actually have to disagree with this. You're equating 'linear power' to 'flat tq curve'. This is incorrect. @Bl1tzkr1eg isn't misusing linear. In this case, the turbo guy doesn't seem to understand the term.

Linear means along a straight or nearly straight line. This doesn't mean it has to be horizontal. A vertical line is just as linear as a horizontal one. A linear torque curve can be a flat torque curve, but it doesn't have to be. It can also be a curve that builds torque at a steady rate, creating a straight line. His point about a SC not creating the surge of power that TC's do is valid. The SC's available for this platform absolutely create a more linear tq curve than TC's do.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Why is it that the SC owners don't seem to understand what the word linear means? In order to have "power is linear" you have to have a flat torque curve. I have yet to see a single SC kit that has a flat torque curve. They always build boost/torque as RPM increases producing a non linear power curve. What you have is a more linear boost/torque curve. It isn't like a bigger engine because you still don't have any low end torque as your torque peak isn't till when close to max boost is hit in the upper RPM range.

Linear doesn't mean flat. Linear means that you can draw a straight line, not a curved line.

Linear regression would yield a much better match to a SC power curve, than a turbo power curve, whereas a turbo curve would better fit a non-linear regression.

Additionally, turbo response is inconsistent; transient response is important

With a turbo car, you have no/minmal boost, and then you hit your spoolup threshold, and get boost, and then you keep that boost while extra air is bled off. That's not linear.

Another way to see if the power is "linear" is to look at the boost graph. The turbo boost graph is not linear at all. It is low, low low, suddenly climbs, and plateaus (or drops off), while the SC boost graphs steadily climb and a near linear rate. You can almost think of the boost curve as a "multiplier" for the NA torque curve.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by AllDayJonRay

I actually have to disagree with this. You're equating 'linear power' to 'flat tq curve'. This is incorrect. @Bl1tzkr1eg isn't misusing linear. In this case, the turbo guy doesn't seem to understand the term.

Linear means along a straight or nearly straight line. This doesn't mean it has to be horizontal. A vertical line is just as linear as a horizontal one. A linear torque curve can be a flat torque curve, but it doesn't have to be. It can also be a curve that builds torque at a steady rate, creating a straight line. His point about a SC not creating the surge of power that TC's do is valid. The SC's available for this platform absolutely create a more linear tq curve than TC's do.

I am 100% correct. Torque and RPM are the two things that determine the horsepower curve. Here is the formula:

(TQ * RPM) / 5250 = HP

Example of 300 ft-lbs @ 4000 RPM and 7000 RPM:

(300 * 4000) / 5250 = 229 hp
(300 * 7000) / 5250 = 400 hp

The slope for those points on a typical RPM/horsepower curve would be:

229/4000 = .057
400/7000 = .057

In order to have a "linear power" or horsepower curve, the torque has to remain a constant so that the slope of the line remains constant and linear as RPM increases. If the torque increases as RPM increases then the horsepower curve is no longer linear. I think you are confusing a power curve and a torque curve. The SCs do produce a more linear torque/boost curve, but NOT a power curve as I stated in my OP.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Linear doesn't mean flat. Linear means that you can draw a straight line, not a curved line.

Linear regression would yield a much better match to a SC power curve, than a turbo power curve, whereas a turbo curve would better fit a non-linear regression.

Additionally, turbo response is inconsistent; transient response is important

With a turbo car, you have no/minmal boost, and then you hit your spoolup threshold, and get boost, and then you keep that boost while extra air is bled off. That's not linear.

Another way to see if the power is "linear" is to look at the boost graph. The turbo boost graph is not linear at all. It is low, low low, suddenly climbs, and plateaus (or drops off), while the SC boost graphs steadily climb and a near linear rate. You can almost think of the boost curve as a "multiplier" for the NA torque curve.

Linear means linear. It can be flat or it can not be flat. We are talking power curves that is a horsepower curve, not a turbo response curve or a torque curve or a boost curve. A linear power curve requires a flat torque curve. Just think about it this way. On a SC car the car starts pulling harder as RPM increases where in a turbo car with a flat torque curve and a linear power curve the pull remains consistent as soon as max boost is reached and the torque remains flat.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Linear means linear. It can be flat or it can not be flat. We are talking power curves that is a horsepower curve, not a turbo response curve or a torque curve or a boost curve. A linear power curve requires a flat torque curve. Just think about it this way. On a SC car the car starts pulling harder as RPM increases where in a turbo car with a flat torque curve and a linear power curve the pull remains consistent as soon as max boost is reached and the torque remains flat.

The SC car has a linear torque curve that is not flat.

The Turbo car is only flat within the boost threshold. If you look at the *entire* powerband, it is not flat.

(relatively) Flat torque curve:



Not flat at all torque curve. Well, actually it's flat-ish if you look from 4000 to redline, but in a bad way; the torque keeps dropping from 4000 to redline.: