CSG Mike's observations on dampers/coilovers

[CBR600RR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

They're comparable to other coilovers at the price point.

I mean in terms of how well their dampening is set up to their spring rates

My understanding is that the STs have fairly soft spring rates in comparison to most other coilovers, and you were saying that a lot of coilovers have spring rates that are overly stiff for their dampening. So my thinking was that the STs might have a better matched spring rate and dampening.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

I mean in terms of how well their dampening is set up to their spring rates

My understanding is that the STs have fairly soft spring rates in comparison to most other coilovers, and you were saying that a lot of coilovers have spring rates that are overly stiff for their dampening. So my thinking was that the STs might have a better matched spring rate and dampening.

They're oversprung/underdamped, which generally translates into a better street ride for people who don't understand or don't want to spend the time learning how to adjust the damper settings for critical damping.

[ericmpena]

Sorry for bringing this thread back to life. lol. Seems like a Mike is gonna be bombarded with PMs now!
I will say that I'm new to suspension and would've never considered coilovers had they not been given to me. Even now that I have them I still don't know about spring rates, proper damping, etc, but I keep continuing to educate myself on the topics.
I feel like I've done more research on shit for my car than I've done in college classes. Even after that I still have questions at the end....so @CSG Mike, thanks for being so involved and sharing your knowledge. It's extremely valuable to people like myself.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ericmpena

Sorry for bringing this thread back to life. lol. Seems like a Mike is gonna be bombarded with PMs now!
I will say that I'm new to suspension and would've never considered coilovers had they not been given to me. Even now that I have them I still don't know about spring rates, proper damping, etc, but I keep continuing to educate myself on the topics.
I feel like I've done more research on shit for my car than I've done in college classes. Even after that I still have questions at the end....so @CSG Mike, thanks for being so involved and sharing your knowledge. It's extremely valuable to people like myself.

Questions are what I'm here for.

Fluid dynamics, osculations, simple harmonics, are the topics you want to brush up on for dampers

[mike the snake]

I have the ST's and really like them. Their spring rates are softer than most others. I'm surprised to hear they are still underdamped. I have not tracked them yet though.

What is a good, cheap, non-adjustable coilover that is properly damped for the spring rates offered?

I fall into the category you described, "people who don't understand or don't want to spend the time..." partially. I wanted to buy non adjustable coilovers that would work OK for track and still be good for street use, not too stiff.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

They're oversprung/underdamped, which generally translates into a better street ride for people who don't understand or don't want to spend the time learning how to adjust the damper settings for critical damping.

[CBR600RR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

They're oversprung/underdamped, which generally translates into a better street ride for people who don't understand or don't want to spend the time learning how to adjust the damper settings for critical damping.

Thanks for the info. Ya I am considering these coilovers for their height adjustability and for 99.99% street use (DD) and spirited driving. I don't want something that is great for lap times but brain rattling on the street.

[BRZPDX]

Love this thread, so much to learn..


Currently I am just on eibach sportline springs, and rides terrible.


I mainly ride on the street, and hope to hit the track once my car has supporting Mods ready.


Which coilover system do you recommend around 1.5k range? if nothing in that price range is a upgrade, do you recommend just replacing the OEM struts to bilsteins or koni? I am looking at B14s, fa500, ST's.. any other recommendations for mainly street? road is "ok" in Portland OR

[ericmpena]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

Love this thread, so much to learn..


Currently I am just on eibach sportline springs, and rides terrible.


I mainly ride on the street, and hope to hit the track once my car has supporting Mods ready.


Which coilover system do you recommend around 1.5k range? if nothing in that price range is a upgrade, do you recommend just replacing the OEM struts to bilsteins or koni? I am looking at B14s, fa500, ST's.. any other recommendations for mainly street? road is "ok" in Portland OR

Oh man, I was on Sportlines for 5 months and I feel ya, the ride sucked!! I really wish someone would've been honest about it in reviews instead of saying, "it's a tad but harsher."

I think there are a lot of good options within your price range. Personally I was set on a Pro-Kit, but after finally ironing out the kinks I've had with my coilover I'm pretty happy with them. It was a little more trouble than I thought it would be. First I had rubbing issues, then spring binding, and then it wasn't until I got all that fixed did I spend a day evening out the height on all 4 corners. Now I'm in the process of finding a good damping setting. So much work just to drive. Lol. I guess in the end it's worth it. Personally I think I would've preferred the simplicity of springs though.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

Love this thread, so much to learn..


Currently I am just on eibach sportline springs, and rides terrible.


I mainly ride on the street, and hope to hit the track once my car has supporting Mods ready.


Which coilover system do you recommend around 1.5k range? if nothing in that price range is a upgrade, do you recommend just replacing the OEM struts to bilsteins or koni? I am looking at B14s, fa500, ST's.. any other recommendations for mainly street? road is "ok" in Portland OR

Originally Posted by ericmpena

Oh man, I was on Sportlines for 5 months and I feel ya, the ride sucked!! I really wish someone would've been honest about it in reviews instead of saying, "it's a tad but harsher."

I think there are a lot of good options within your price range. Personally I was set on a Pro-Kit, but after finally ironing out the kinks I've had with my coilover I'm pretty happy with them. It was a little more trouble than I thought it would be. First I had rubbing issues, then spring binding, and then it wasn't until I got all that fixed did I spend a day evening out the height on all 4 corners. Now I'm in the process of finding a good damping setting. So much work just to drive. Lol. I guess in the end it's worth it. Personally I think I would've preferred the simplicity of springs though.

I was on Swift BRZ spec springs and the ride was pretty good for just lowering springs, to be honest. A tad under damped but I'm sure when they're coupled with some good heavier duty dampers they would be that much better.

[CSG Mike]

I don't feel comfortable making recommendations for low end dampers.

Some food for thought: here's an analogy.

Your typical new car nowadays has 7 airbags in it. At $1200/airbag, that's $8400 in airbags. An entry level car can be had, new, at sticker price, for around $18,500. SO that means, if you take the airbags out, the rest of the car is roughly $10,000.

But, if you increase your budget by 10k, then you can get a $28.5k car, which still has $8400 in airbags. Now you have 20k for the rest of the car.

That, is the difference, between a Chevy Cruze, and a loaded BRZ. Power, safety features, technology, handling... big difference, isn't it?


Now, how much do you think the materials for a damper costs?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Now, how much do you think the materials for a damper costs?

$27.50?

edit wait, was this a trick question?

[stockysnail]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

Love this thread, so much to learn..


Currently I am just on eibach sportline springs, and rides terrible.


I mainly ride on the street, and hope to hit the track once my car has supporting Mods ready.


Which coilover system do you recommend around 1.5k range? if nothing in that price range is a upgrade, do you recommend just replacing the OEM struts to bilsteins or koni? I am looking at B14s, fa500, ST's.. any other recommendations for mainly street? road is "ok" in Portland OR

I have a feeling you'll know what I will recommend. I recommend Koni shocks and RCE Yellow springs (RCE Tarmac is a little stiffer if you need stiffer). As long as you don't install the spring perch upside down in the rear it will look low enough. My car is great both on the track and daily driving. You're welcome to drive my car if you'd like to feel how it rides. You can even put the rebound on full soft and full stiff to compare. In return I ask that you let me put your Q300 on my car and drive around for 15mins so I can see if I like how it sounds compared to my loud-ish setup.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

I have a feeling you'll know what I will recommend. I recommend Koni shocks and RCE Yellow springs (RCE Tarmac is a little stiffer if you need stiffer). As long as you don't install the spring perch upside down in the rear it will look low enough. My car is great both on the track and daily driving. You're welcome to drive my car if you'd like to feel how it rides. You can even put the rebound on full soft and full stiff to compare. In return I ask that you let me put your Q300 on my car and drive around for 15mins so I can see if I like how it sounds compared to my loud-ish setup.

I am hesitant to pick up a set of Koni's for my car. The dynos I see of them always seem so inconsistent between the individual dampers. I have heard that you really need to buy a few sets, dyno them, then pick out the 4 that are closest. Plus, with that kind of inconsistencies in manufacturing, I wonder how they will dyno after a year. I dunno, I just don't trust that the Koni's will be better than my stock dampers and having the adjustibility can be a curse just as much as it can be a blessing.

P.S. Apparently adjustibility isn't an actual word.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

I am hesitant to pick up a set of Koni's for my car. The dynos I see of them always seem so inconsistent between the individual dampers. I have heard that you really need to buy a few sets, dyno them, then pick out the 4 that are closest. Plus, with that kind of inconsistencies in manufacturing, I wonder how they will dyno after a year. I dunno, I just don't trust that the Koni's will be better than my stock dampers and having the adjustibility can be a curse just as much as it can be a blessing.

P.S. Apparently adjustibility isn't an actual word.

We also have several members that have had them blow out or break. They were replaced under warranty, but it's still a major pain.