PST vs DSS carbon driveshafts, anyone compare?

[OICU812]

Curious as these are both out. Both have some interesting differences on how they're made and so fourth. But there is no clear winner from what I can see as just a guy researching. Having never seen or used either of their products it's bit tough to know. PST shafts are everywhere while DSS take a few weeks to make, both are within 150 bones of each other cost wise....

Anyone that has this car have chance to compare these cf shafts to each other?

Reason considering cf over aluminum is the noise reduction of CF which makes seen to me.

Thanks if you can provide info on either or have some experience with both!

[Captain Snooze]

Whilst I appreciate the question being asked I doubt there will be too many people who have bought both to do a side by side comparison. I have read elsewhere of issues that have plagued the odd shaft by both PST and DSS.

[Hawaiian]

Love my DSS cf. If you get me a PST I'll compare them for you.

[OICU812]

Sincerely I figured no one has but had to ask cause well... Some people here spend a ton and would! Lol maybe just too early for the platform for such questions I suppose.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Sincerely I figured no one has but had to ask cause well... Some people here spend a ton and would! Lol maybe just too early for the platform for such questions I suppose.

Ask me about any of other thousands of dollars of modifications I've done!

CFDS or even an aluminum DS is on the list for "one day" though.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Ask me about any of other thousands of dollars of modifications I've done!

CFDS or even an aluminum DS is on the list for "one day" though.

Lol. Thanks for keeping me in check as always Orbital!

[OrbitalEllipses]

[kiichiro]

I want to see weights, materials and close up of flanges and brands of u joint etc before I buy

[RehabJeff86]

PST has better CF weaving


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[FRS-HHH]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59392

[mitosis]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

PST has better CF weaving

Why do you say that? I'm genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion. Not at all trying to debate what you say there because I have no opinion or evidence of the contrary, but I'd like to see some evidence or whatever your source of such information is because I would like to know the answer about that myself. No offense but the word of some random person on the internet isn't exactly a reliable enough source of information for me to make my decision on.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

PST has better CF weaving

Originally Posted by RallySport Direct

Just to start off, this is NOT to start an argument and more to help people understand about carbon fiber and how it is used.

As chrisl stated carbon fiber strands are strong in tension, and weak in every other possible aspect(think of a rope). So to get the most strength from the fibers you want the fibers to be in tension. In any other direction all the loads are being taken up by the Resins that are used to hold the carbon together.

The interaction of the resin, the type of resin, and amount of resin has more to do with how a carbon fiber acts when loaded then just the carbon itself. Resin makes up between 35-50% of the material, and can have not only your basic components but also things like nano-carbon tunes and fillers to make it stronger or flexible. The better the resin for the application the more load the entire matrix(term used to describer carbon and resin sample) can hold in all directions but ultimately it will be the strongest in the direction that puts load on carbon in tension.

Carbon fiber is made in layers, a single layer is thin (1/4" thick piece of carbon fiber is anywhere between 75-150 layers) and each layer can be oriented in a different direction to give you the desired results. The worst way to use carbon fiber is to make it quasi-isotropic (making it the same in all directions), so manufactures will mix layers and put material in different directions depending on what properties they want from the material.

For this application the ideal placement of fiber direction is along the direction of load, which is around the shaft in the perpendicular direction. However due to the weak bond between the resin and fibers the shaft would simply sheer if all fibers were in that direction. Then if you put all fibers in the parallel direction there would be no sheer issues but you have load issues were the shaft is not able to take high loads with out bending. So it comes down to a fine balance of each different aspect.

Last but not least, unless you are the manufacture you do not know what the manufacture has done to the carbon, what carbon they use, what resin they use, and in which direction they have placed the carbon elements. Carbon fiber is typically 8-20 layers deep and each layer plays a critical part in how much load the matrix can take and in what direction. The automotive industry is driven by aesthetics, so everyone makes the outside of parts look shiny and pretty. But with carbon fiber its on the INSIDE that counts. And given that people buy majority of parts on how they look on the outside, many manufactures go out of their way to make outsides of parts look more impressive then 98% of the rest of the product. No carbon manufacture will simply come out and tell you what resin and carbon they use, what manufacturing technique, what carbon lay up, and the curing temperatures/pressure as that is the "secret sauce".

So the moral of the story is simple, you simply cant look at a true carbon fiber part and say if its "good" or "bad" with out running tests on it or getting the manufacture to tell you the recipe to their "sauce" on how they made it and so forth. Its like looking at a cut of raw steak and guessing the age of the cow and where the cow came from with out knowing all the details.

My bold.
.

[mitosis]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

My bold.

Yes, exactly. This is where I'm coming from too, and thus why I'd like some EMPIRICAL evidence of said claims. Without testing of some sort (tearing both apart and examining the layup of the fibers, pushing both to the point of failure, measuring twist/bend/etc under load, spinning both and checking for any funny resonances, etc) any claims of one being better than the other is based purely on the grounds of cosmetics (which I don't care about).

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by mitosis

Without testing of some sort (tearing both apart and examining the layup of the fibers, pushing both to the point of failure, measuring twist/bend/etc under load, spinning both and checking for any funny resonances, etc) any claims of one being better than the other is based purely on the grounds of opinion,second hand stories and/or rumour.

Fixed.