Snow tires...wow...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

The real message here - is keep the nannies on when driving in conditions+tires you've not experienced before. Short of icy, they will likely save your ass from bigger trouble. On ice, they will save you if your ice grip is adequate.

Ehhhh, if traction control hadn't been on I wouldn't have understeered. I don't disagree that the nannies should be on when you're not familiar, but there's been a really small minority of incidents where I'd have liked it to intrude far less than it did.

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Edit: To OE, it was 62 this morning on my drive into work and raining the whole way. I didn't push them too hard, but these Hankooks did pretty well in the warm and rain. Not a single squirm, even at 77 on the highway.

Felt like I was riding on marshmallows. No rain, all sun and fun here...but bouncy as hell and actually affected steering a bit. Before any one says it - no, my alignment is NOT off. I should really check my tread depth to see if the proprietary outer compound has worn down and I should sell these.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

He's on ipikes, not i*cepts. The former are I&S, the latter are like performance winter, and decent ones at that.

I missed the name difference there, thanks for the catch. And that makes more sense. My friend was telling me that 90% of the time in the winter, I dont necessarily need the extra traction that I&S tires will give me. The i*cepts, from what I have been told, are a good compromise without either giving up too much of either aspect--winter traction or performance.

[kidgogeta]

might pick a cheap set up 16" rims, usually pretty dry but cold here (vancouver, bc). I do live at the bottom of a slight hill cul de sac type thing so if my car could get up the hill I would be impressed. So far i've got:

blizzak LM vs michelin x-ice 3

what else?

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by kidgogeta

might pick a cheap set up 16" rims, usually pretty dry but cold here (vancouver, bc). I do live at the bottom of a slight hill cul de sac type thing so if my car could get up the hill I would be impressed. So far i've got:

blizzak LM vs michelin x-ice 3

what else?

Hankook i*cept (forget the rest of it). Sounds pretty balanced for what you need.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I missed the name difference there, thanks for the catch. And that makes more sense. My friend was telling me that 90% of the time in the winter, I dont necessarily need the extra traction that I&S tires will give me. The i*cepts, from what I have been told, are a good compromise without either giving up too much of either aspect--winter traction or performance.

Relative to ipikes/altimaxes, that's true. Top-of-the line I&S will have quite a bit more ice grip though.
That's even evident in Tirerack's ice rink tests, as poor as they are.
I&S tires on average yield .16g under braking, whereas performance winter ~.14g. May not sound like much of a difference, but it'll lead to ~15% shorter braking distance.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by kidgogeta

might pick a cheap set up 16" rims, usually pretty dry but cold here (vancouver, bc). I do live at the bottom of a slight hill cul de sac type thing so if my car could get up the hill I would be impressed. So far i've got:

blizzak LM vs michelin x-ice 3

what else?

Does the hill ever freeze over?
If so - Hakka R2. If not - performance winter is a good choice. For the money, i*cepts are good. Michelin PA3/PA4 are good, but not sure what's that gonna cost in your size.

[kidgogeta]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Does the hill ever freeze over?
If so - Hakka R2. If not - performance winter is a good choice. For the money, i*cepts are good. Michelin PA3/PA4 are good, but not sure what's that gonna cost in your size.

yes the hill freezes over, huge pain in the ass cause none of my neighbors ever try cleaning up just pack the snow down with their lifted trucks (which barely get up in the first place lol at mud tires in the snow). How are the hakka r2 in the dry weather?

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by kidgogeta

How are the hakka r2 in the dry weather?

The best among top-line I&S rubber. A bit behind good performance winters, but those might not get you up a hill in a BRZ.

Get it in stock size and you'll have less of a floaty feeling. You won't need it to be narrow to 'cut' through deep snow.

On a second thought, though, a set of performance winters and a several bags of salt to dump on the hill might be cheaper than R2s.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You guys are all wusses.

Real men fit 225/45x17 Pirelli Sottozeros for high level bare road handling. Then if it snows just get used to driving while looking out the side windows.

Windshield wipers are also just for wusses.

Well, isn't the joke just on me.

My BRZ is basically undrivable on the icy roads we have at the moment.

However, it isn't tire grip because it stops just fine. Steering is nice and quick which allows you to catch the drift immediately but oh my goodness did Subaru ever screw up the back axle on this car. And they did this on purpose, apparently.

Its a shame because it makes the car very slow. Others have experienced this on wet tracks also. It will also slow the car on dry tracks even though that may be less obvious.

Hope somebody aftermarket designs a fix for this soon. I suspect the Torsen is a tad too tight and something odd is happening under squat. Since the car is more predictable and easier to drive, sort of, with the traction control off then I suspect it is the rear suspension which is to blame. The Torsen just makes it even twitchier.

No wonder you can drop clutch drift this car on dry pavement with only 150 lb ft of torque to kick the ass end out. On ice you can do this if you sneeze.

[jonboy99]

What cars are you comparing it to and what tyres are you running? I haven't had any other RWD cars *edit: except my miata!* so my experience is very limited with them, but my brz is certainly not undriveable and not much different to what I was expecting on ice and snow.

Originally Posted by Suberman

Well, isn't the joke just on me.

My BRZ is basically undrivable on the icy roads we have at the moment.

However, it isn't tire grip because it stops just fine. Steering is nice and quick which allows you to catch the drift immediately but oh my goodness did Subaru ever screw up the back axle on this car. And they did this on purpose, apparently.

Its a shame because it makes the car very slow. Others have experienced this on wet tracks also. It will also slow the car on dry tracks even though that may be less obvious.

Hope somebody aftermarket designs a fix for this soon. I suspect the Torsen is a tad too tight and something odd is happening under squat. Since the car is more predictable and easier to drive, sort of, with the traction control off then I suspect it is the rear suspension which is to blame. The Torsen just makes it even twitchier.

No wonder you can drop clutch drift this car on dry pavement with only 150 lb ft of torque to kick the ass end out. On ice you can do this if you sneeze.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Well, isn't the joke just on me.

My BRZ is basically undrivable on the icy roads we have at the moment.

However, it isn't tire grip because it stops just fine. Steering is nice and quick which allows you to catch the drift immediately but oh my goodness did Subaru ever screw up the back axle on this car. And they did this on purpose, apparently.

Its a shame because it makes the car very slow. Others have experienced this on wet tracks also. It will also slow the car on dry tracks even though that may be less obvious.

Hope somebody aftermarket designs a fix for this soon. I suspect the Torsen is a tad too tight and something odd is happening under squat. Since the car is more predictable and easier to drive, sort of, with the traction control off then I suspect it is the rear suspension which is to blame. The Torsen just makes it even twitchier.

No wonder you can drop clutch drift this car on dry pavement with only 150 lb ft of torque to kick the ass end out. On ice you can do this if you sneeze.

Yeah, blame Subaru. Not your rubber not fit for the job. I had absolutely no problem getting going/cornering in icy conditions. You just need a tad more grip in the rear. Torsen needs grip to work. Two solutions: get tires that better handle ice, or put 100lbs of junk in the trunk.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Yeah, blame Subaru. Not your rubber not fit for the job. I had absolutely no problem getting going/cornering in icy conditions. You just need a tad more grip in the rear. Torsen needs grip to work. Two solutions: get tires that better handle ice, or put 100lbs of junk in the trunk.

40 + years of winter driving. It's not the tires. It's the rear axle. Adding weight to the trunk (a Mickey Mouse solution anyway) will not correct this fault because the tires grip just fine under braking.

I know what I'm talking about.

Used these same tires on three other vehicles. They all handled fine.

This car does not handle fine.

It's a shame if only because it could be such a good car, but isn't.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Suberman

40 + years of winter driving. It's not the tires. It's the rear axle. Adding weight to the trunk (a Mickey Mouse solution anyway) will not correct this fault because the tires grip just fine under braking.

I know what I'm talking about.

Used these same tires on three other vehicles. They all handled fine.

This car does not handle fine.

It's a shame if only because it could be such a good car, but isn't.

From all I've read from you, your 'experience' counts for nil. Go ahead, blame the tool, I'll laugh. I repeat, it's the grip. What were you thinking, going with performance winters in Alberta is beyond me.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

From all I've read from you, your 'experience' counts for nil. Go ahead, blame the tool, I'll laugh. I repeat, it's the grip. What were you thinking, going with performance winters in Alberta is beyond me.

Then you are free to remain ignorant of the facts.

Anytime you feel,like proving your point, go ahead. Otherwise your opinion about my opinions is merely "sound and fury signifying nothing."