Still can't decide on AT or MT for your first FRS/BRZ? This may help...

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by RYU

Man oh man... I completely agree with you. I just got done putting 1300 miles on my 6AT and this transmission is SOPHISTICATED. There's simply no other one word to describe it.

I'm taking notes and i'll write up a full review of the 6AT soon.

Here's one of my many testimonials I'll share for now:
We did a canyon run this morning. On the way back down I got a little tired after already done 100 miles of twisties so I shifted out of "M" and gave the paddles a rest. I still kept it in "Sport" mode but also left it in "D" (geez, these stock tires are no good). As I began to notice differences between regular D vs. D w/ Sport mode, I quickly started hitting the apexes hard again because it was just too much fun! It knows exactly when to rev-match downshift as you begin turn-in and begin to apply moderate brake pressure before coming into the turn. Sure, we all know it rev-match downshifts when you tell it to via the paddles but what surprised me was it did it all on its own when driving aggressively in Sport mode. It also knows to hold a gear and maintains engine braking when you want it to. In many instances I find it shifted better than I did. I could swear it is learning my shifting patterns. It's totally aggressive when you need it to be. Jekyl and Hyde is a good way to describe. As I got back into town where cars were.. it was time to turn off Sport mode and it was as docile as can be. There's just no drama with this 6AT. It just works. The Sport mode is no joke. It might as well be called Race mode.

It's a whole new world out there. With the advent of such good traction control and DBR (drive by wire) technology it's really amazing what these new automatics can do.

This is no PDK or DSG but it doesn't beat you up like one either. I found no instance when I thought the torque converter/valve body trans shifted too slow. I'll admit, it's no replacement for a MT at all. I'll be the first to tell you that but it's a completely different, equally rewarding experience. At the track, if both Final Drives between the 6AT and 6MT were the same (they're not), I think i'd be a good 2+ secs per lap faster in the 6AT.

All this for an extra $1,100 and 50lbs. TOTALLY WORTH IT.

At and manual have the same final drive, the acutall gear ratios are different per gear, change the rear end out with a 5.0:1 and the gears will be similar to the mt

[RYU]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

At and manual have the same final drive, the acutall gear ratios are different per gear, change the rear end out with a 5.0:1 and the gears will be similar to the mt

Thanks for the info. I have some research to do in this department for sure. Hoping the aftermarket comes thru for us 6AT guys here

[Ravenlokk]

A couple factor for me choosing MT was i really missed driving a MT. First 3 cars were MT, last was AT. The AT and manual-mode it offers is pretty decent with the FRS... So that's less important i suppose.

The other big thing, which has been mentioned here already- is the AT is less aftermarket friendly. From ECU tune issues, to piping other components, and most importantly- the inability of the AT to support the same amounts of power that the MT can... Let's be honest, most of us here are here because we are interested in the aftermarket... That being said, MT should be the natural choice.

AT isn't bad, dont get me wrong. But you will ultimately be limited by its potential. Only reason to go with the AT is if your wife wont let you get the MT. I just had to convince mine i'd teach her lol.

[Captain Insano]

Yep Ryu, I agree with all you said as well. I think the AT in this car (I consider myself a decent driver, I'm by no means a race car driver, but I'm decent with a MT) would actually make MOST (not all) drivers alot more consistent at a track event. I think with a MT I was very accustomed to on this car I might get a better time than the AT one of five times... But the other four times in a track run I would have overall better averages with the AT because it isn't letting you mess up and it's pretty easy to mess up a shift on a track or for concentrating on shifting making you not be as good on a line as you might have been with an AT doing it all for you. I'm not saying this is about all drivers, but I think most drivers that only go to the track occasionally (like me, not too much) the AT would be alot more consistent.

And I do agree, in most cases AT can hold a car back with aftermarket potential... But I've also seen other car tuning crowds (my S4 Avant comes to mind) in which the aftermarket actually could tune the AT shift points and make it every bit as competitive as a MT!! I'm hoping something like that is in store for our cars. Because if the shifting could be even faster (I think it is already awesome) this AT could be absolutley incredible. Even if it doesn't, I'm not looking to go crazy with power on this car. I'm actually a ton more interested in suspension and light weight modifications - I kinda fell in love with NA power when I had my 4.2L V8 S4 Avant. On that car it was all about, header, exhaust, tune, and then make everything as light as possible. Love it. Looking to do same on this car if I get the modifcation bug.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Ravenlokk

A couple factor for me choosing MT was i really missed driving a MT. First 3 cars were MT, last was AT. The AT and manual-mode it offers is pretty decent with the FRS... So that's less important i suppose.

The other big thing, which has been mentioned here already- is the AT is less aftermarket friendly. From ECU tune issues, to piping other components, and most importantly- the inability of the AT to support the same amounts of power that the MT can... Let's be honest, most of us here are here because we are interested in the aftermarket... That being said, MT should be the natural choice.

AT isn't bad, dont get me wrong. But you will ultimately be limited by its potential. Only reason to go with the AT is if your wife wont let you get the MT. I just had to convince mine i'd teach her lol.

The accelerated preformance Mt turbo broke gears before the auto did

[Ravenlokk]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

The accelerated preformance Mt turbo broke gears before the auto did

That had a lot less to do with the MT, and more to do with the situation. Im curious to see how an AT Would have handled the massive amount of stress on landing.

[wlfpck]

Until someone actually calls Aisin and get a torque capacity for the automatic transmission, I don't think that the MT can automatically be placed as being more "durable" or being able to hold more torque than the AT.

Reasons that I say this is because of the following...

Traditional ATs that most have experience with are simple automatics that you put into drive and you leave it there. With newer automatics (if you look at the trends, as companies come out with automatics with more gears and also with sequential shifting), you'll notice that generally speaking the stock valve bodies are built to withstand a lot more abuse. This is because, they know that the consumer will be putting the vehicle in sports mode and "thrashing" on the vehicle.


Looking into the basics of building an automatic transmission, the biggest player is heat. Heat will burn the transmission fluid and cause the clutch packs to "fry". This is easily prevented with the presence of a transmission oil cooler. However, more torque equals more heat.

Once a automatic car is boosted, there is more heat generated. Keep in mind that the AT we're discussing is the traditional torque converter transmission and not the DCT.

Where does this take us? Well, things progress. Do I like driving a MT? Sure. Do I enjoy driving an AT? Sure. But... if you look at where technology is going, it is something that will eventually come to be. Maybe not for 10 years... but it will happen.

ATs no longer lag in fuel economy as they once did. They are being built to have extremely quick shifts. The DCT was created. It's kind of like how smartphones now dominate the mobile phone market. Eventually one technology will take over.

Car and Driver has a whole save the manual thing going. Assuming that the manual doesn't die, you'll start to see that a majority of the consumers start to shift towards the AT. Even for track use. Take a look at the rally racing today. They use dog boxes. They need that ultra fast shift where they bang away at each gear. These are not the same MTs that are found on the everyday car. These dog boxes were designed for the purpose.

Obviously dog boxes are suitable for the everyday driver who sees the occasional weekend track. That's why there's the DCT, the MT, and the FR-S/BRZ AT. They offer shifts that are all faster than the traditional AT.

Once technology continues to catch up with things, you'll start to see certain technologies get to a point where it's a standard issue. Similar to cameras on a phone.

And on that long, long note....

It is definitely possible to build the autos. Think about boostlogic and the transmission work they do on the automatic supras. Expensive? yes... but it can still happen.

[Ravenlokk]

Almost forgot to mention that the price difference between AT and MT gets you half way towards a turbo kit .

[RYU]

One thing I can't understand is why many here seem to want to defend their MT purchase and try to rationalize it in almost every post It cracks me up everytime.

It really reminds me of when my dad's car friends constantly try to rationalize keeping their carburetors when all us "kids" were figuring out injector sizing.

[wlfpck]

I think this "arguement" is moot. There are several reasons that someone would choose one over the other.


Chose an AT:

There could be a physical disability (veteran that lost a leg) that prevents them from driving a MT. I believe that it would be unfair to say that they can't have fun in a vehicle.

Chose AT:

Someone is a recent car enthusiast. No one in the family is a car enthusiast and therefore he/she never learned to drive a stick. They wanted to learn but none of their friends had a MT that they could learn on.

Chose AT:

Weekend/monthly tracker. They can drive a MT. They want to track their car. However, they're not very proficient at it. They DECIDED that they did not want to learn to drive a stick on a track because it takes time to practice and they are otherwise occupied by a child, job responsibilities, etc.

or...

They track their car. They don't want to risk a mis-shift which could cause potential problems. This is their only means of transportation.



Chose MT:

they track their car A LOT. They have been racing their car A LOT. They can heel-toe perfectly and races auto-x extensively.

Chose MT:

They like being in full control.

Chose MT:

They like it.



In the end, who cares what someone else buys? It's their car. If I chose to wipe my butt with hundred dollar bills, that's my choice.

[mit_peid]

This got to be the most informative thread on the internet on the FRS/BRZ Auto.... thanks!

[Teknian_Culprate13]

is there a way you can shorten gear ratio on the AT to make it as quick or quicker than MT?

[chiefshayan]

Yes! Check out the Cusco 4.556 Drive Final Ring and Pinion Gear Set. It will not make it quicker than a manual from a dig since there is no way to launch the auto stock from the factory but you will be able to be pretty close from a roll. Check out SSP performance, they're making a stage 1 and stage 2 automatic transmission upgrades in the upcoming months including higher stall torque converter, upgraded clutch, tranny fluid and a transmission cooler. It'll be able to handle big power!!

Originally Posted by Teknian_Culprate13

is there a way you can shorten gear ratio on the AT to make it as quick or quicker than MT?

[mike_ekim1024]

Originally Posted by Teknian_Culprate13

is there a way you can shorten gear ratio on the AT to make it as quick or quicker than MT?

Swap out the final drive for a 4.56 or 4.88 or even higher. A few people here have done it, and I will also have my 4.56 installed soon. 4.10 to 4.56 is about 10%, so it should be something you can feel. MPGs will drop a bit, but the auto already gets very good gas mileage. Vrooom!!