Are you faster with traction control on or off?

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Two things:
1) learning the limits doesn't mean using them everyday. It means learning how the car handles so you can drive safely under or around those moments on the street. At least, that has been my approach.
2) Lots of so-called accidents are not accidental, they are wrecks. Caused by discernible choices in risk assessment and situational awareness.

(Bringing it back to electronic stability systems) These are exactly the factors which the ECU cannot interpret, so it's still the responsibility of the driver to be smart and safe.

Safety gear is a good backup for safe behavior, not a replacement for being fully aware of what you are doing and what may result.

Mountain climbers don't just clip onto a rope and start ascending a cliff. They know exactly what hand and foot positions to use, what to prepare for, what to do if they slip. They know they have safety gear just in case, but they never want to use it. With cars I do not see why it should be a any different. It should be the last resort, not the first thing that makes someone feel comfortable seeing how far they can push their car.

Agreed but mountain climbers still use the ropes as a back-up despite most likely never needing them. Thus by your analogy, even if you know how to control the car at the limit and beyond, you should still use TC as a back-up.

[CSG Mike]

I use everything off (pedal dance) permanently, but I suspect I'm not the norm here...

I trust myself more than I trust the electronics that work off of pre-set parameters designed for the masses.

For the majority, if VSC/TC is kicking in, you're *probably* making a driving error without realizing it. The system on this car is pretty damn good.

[campy]

Before the FRS, I had a Porsche I would autox. One of the nice things about having the engine in the back is that all the weight is back there, so when you are exiting a corner, you can just hit the gas and it will grip and go.

When I first got the FRS, I tried doing that and spun out a couple times. My next few runs were done in sport mode, which allowed me to learn the car better. I later took off TC altogether when I was comfortable in sport mode.

It's all about progression, I suppose

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Agreed but mountain climbers still use the ropes as a back-up despite most likely never needing them. Thus by your analogy, even if you know how to control the car at the limit and beyond, you should still use TC as a back-up.

No. Because:

The mountain climber's safety gear doesn't tell them what hand or foot hold to use. It doesn't intercede and try to decide which path they should take. If it did these things, it might get in the way. A novice may never notice but a siilled climber might often find it intrusive. They might prefer to switch it off and climb without it - for speed or for enjoyment or for a more pure experience or for any number of reasons.

When I get an FT86, I am going to get @CSG Mike to give me dancing lessons.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

No. Because:

The mountain climber's safety gear doesn't tell them what hand or foot hold to use. It doesn't intercede and try to decide which path they should take. If it did these things, it might get in the way. A novice may never notice but a siilled climber might often find it intrusive. They might prefer to switch it off and climb without it - for speed or for enjoyment or for a more pure experience or for any number of reasons.

When I get an FT86, I am going to get @CSG Mike to give me dancing lessons.

I suppose I'm a free climber

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I suppose I'm a free climber

Same here. :happy0180:

To me, the great achievement is being able to turn it back on. In case someone else is driving, etc.

Ninja edit: for all those who have dealt with this for years, I just want to say: TRAC OFF! LOL!

[Dezoris]

Track=Off | Street=On

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

For the majority, if VSC/TC is kicking in, you're *probably* making a driving error without realizing it. The system on this car is pretty damn good.

This is a good reason to turn it off on the track or autocross. No way to learn unless the system lets you fail.

I always autocross/track with everything turned off. Even if the nannies made you faster (which doesn't look to be the case on our cars), you wouldn't learn if the system is always correcting your errors.

On the street, I leave it full on/sport for the most part.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

No. Because:

The mountain climber's safety gear doesn't tell them what hand or foot hold to use. It doesn't intercede and try to decide which path they should take. If it did these things, it might get in the way. A novice may never notice but a siilled climber might often find it intrusive. They might prefer to switch it off and climb without it - for speed or for enjoyment or for a more pure experience or for any number of reasons.

When I get an FT86, I am going to get @CSG Mike to give me dancing lessons.

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. But your analogy is that even the most expert mountain climbers still use ropes as a back-up despite their primary safety coming from their knowledge and climbing technique. So I don't understand how that analogy proves that you should turn your TC off on the street and rely solely on your own abilities as a driver...

Turn off TC on the track/autocross where consequences are minimal. Leave them on day to day to be a back-up for your driving abilities.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Track=Off | Street=On

This

[cuddefred]

If you need to enter a roadway with wheel spin there probably wasn't a big enough gap to enter safely in the first place! Nothing to do with TC etc., just poor judgement and/or driving.

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Off. Because I learned to drive without these systems and when they intercede it disrupts my flow. I recognize how good they are, I just prefer to use my own brain rather than relying on a computer brain to make decisions for me.

Most of the time I drive in such a way that the systems would never be needed anyway.

They are good at what they do, but they do not always understand the context of a situation. Simple example: what if I need to enter a roadway briskly with a little wheelspin? The system can get in the way. No thanks.

[Liquidsnake]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

My last car ended up like this, so I leave mine on all the time. I don't another stupid mistake in a low traction scenario and I'd rather not repeat another wet slide/roll.

Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We live our lives a quarter mile at a time baby!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Luis_GT]

So many people now days rely on a computer to fix their mistakes... this is why we have bad drivers everywhere...

[lazyluka]

TC ON = for daily or in the wet.
VSC Sport = for a twisty mountain road in the dry.
TC Off = I will be extremely careful if I ever decide to use this again on the public road
Pedal Dance = RACE TRACK

Stock car, you are faster with Pedal Dance on the track, however once you start upgrading your car, VSC Sport may allow you to get faster lap times until you are used to the extra levels of grip offered from mods. It won't be interfering much if you are smooth and don't try and drift. My experience comes from my mate handing me the keys to his 86 with wide sticky rubber vs my stock one. I was faster in his car with VSC sport as I could safely push harder than I was with it off as I wasn't used to the car.

FYI testing on the new car (2013 production) leads me to believe that the new ECU version makes the TC less intrusive. Even fully on, I have had minimal interference from it on the road and even on the track (provided I am grip driving and not trying to slide).


For those who want to know if the car records TC off.

I have crash logs pulled from my car's ECU when I crashed with TC off.

The car recorded only 6 seconds of pre crash data, but it clearly shows the TC off, and then it turned itself on at about T-3sec when it detected the car was going backwards at 60km/h+.

It probably saved my life by turning itself on.

Link to thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32538

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

I turn mine off for autocross and am wayyy faster. We had a rain event the other day, whole course was standing water and I had a difference of 3 seconds with everything off vs TSC Sport.

@bkblitzed : You gotta change your sig man. Every time I come across one of your posts I just stop and stare for like 5 minutes before I remember where I am.

haha thanks. Everyone loves Emma watson