Easier driving with trac - off?

[radroach]

I've been wanting to ask this question for awhile, does anybody find the car drives smoother and easier for takeoffs when TRAC is off? At stoplights I often turn TRAC OFF to setting 1 (1-second press) because I believe it's easier driving without it.

When traction control is on, I often feel like the clutch is pushing back at me and the car doesn't want to move as easily, whereas having TRAC off is smoother. What could this be? The car perhaps sensing me slipping the clutch a little bit (low rpm) and trying to prevent wheel spin?

[VacantSky]

It's definitely not the clutch, it has to do with the rear end slightly. Its more obvious when starting out from a corner. Being limited slip it will allow one tire to slightly slip while cornering from a dead stop allowing you to put power to the ground. The wheel speed/abs sensors see this, think you are losing traction but in all reality it's just the LSD doing it's job. Then you get a power cut because the ECU thinks you are going to lose control, and incidentally you piss off oncoming traffic because you pulled out in your sports car and it bogged down a little.

From a straight line it's probably you just losing traction, even ever so slightly. It's very very easy for the stock tires to slip. Hell I have 235's on 9 inch wide wheels and mine slip easily. I hold the button for 5 seconds every start up. I'll control my wheel spin with my right foot thank you very much...

The clutch "pushing back at you" feeling is probably the throttle body being electronically closed and opened rapidly to "help you gain traction" which makes the car feel slightly weird. The clutch in this car is just that, a basic clutch. You control it 100%, no nanny's on it.

[s0sl0w]

I just leave mine in sport mode all the time, it's fine.

Maybe learn to drive a manual more better?

[aznatama]

I don't have a problem w/ everything on. I thought the light blinks in the cluster if it's activated? I've never had it blink at me unless I'm purposely pushing it (read: not normal driving).

[carma143]

I have trouble smoothly launching from non-motion. I'll have to try this out when I get my car back from the shop.

[Erik1493]

"Easier". Kind of a broad question. It is my prefernce to have everything off at lower speeds. Im not going to fuck around on a highway going 75mph without traction control.

[Decay107]

Yes, I've noticed the car is a lot more controllable without TC/VSC. Have not noticed it in a straight line but in the corners the stability control intervenes way too early.

For safety, I leave it in sport mode when I am driving on public roads.

[stugray]

I really need to make a macro to type this for me because I do it so often:

IF the nannies on this car are interfering with your "driving style" on the street - Then you are overdriving the car. (translation - you drive like an ass-hat).

I drive with he systems on at all times and I have only noticed 2-3 times in over a year where the TC/VSC intervened when I though it should not have.

Look at it this way: In older cars without TC systems - WHEN do you know that you should not have made that left turn with so much throttle?
WHEN YOU SPUN OUT IN THE INTERSECTION.
How many times did you need to spin out in the intersection before you learned to not do that? - ONCE!

Now that the nannies keep stepping in and "saving us" how do we learn to quit pushing the car? - WE DONT, we just keep doing it.

So learn to drive the car by paying attention to the nannies.
If they stepped in to do something, chances are you were pushing it too hard.

So I think this car it teaching kids bad habits by not punishing them for bad behavior.

So on that note: Most new student drivers SHOULD practice without the nannies a lot, but NOT ON THE STREET.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by stugray

Look at it this way: In older cars without TC systems - WHEN do you know that you should not have made that left turn with so much throttle?
WHEN YOU SPUN OUT IN THE INTERSECTION.
How many times did you need to spin out in the intersection before you learned to not do that? - ONCE!

lulz at not being able to catch the rear end on a 200hp car.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

lulz at not being able to catch the rear end on a 200hp car.

rear end steps out while turning right onto a busy street at 10 MPH - piece of cake.
rear end steps out at 65 MPH on a deceasing radius off camber right hand turn - not so much.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

lulz at not being able to catch the rear end on a 200hp car.

You need enough power to lose traction. Once traction is lost 200bhp or 2000bhp doesn't actually matter that much it's all about your ability to control the chassis.

[stugray]

Look at it another way:
I had my car all day long on the track for a HPDE.
My teenage son & I shared sessions with a professional driving instructor.

I never turned off ANY of the systems
Yet - we still drove the crap out of the car and had a ton of fun doing it.
learned more than a year's worth of driving on the street under any circumstances.
rarely engaged the systems

And under the small number of cases where it DID step in, it saved us from a spin that would have meant a stop in the hot pit for a tech inspect..

So - Anyone who says that they drive conservatively on the street and keep getting stepped on by the nannies should get their system checked out.

[kdmBRZ]

Please don't drive with traction control OFF, you will end up fucking up your car, spin out, and possibly endanger others and yourself on public roads. Learn to get used to your clutch and work on being smooth. You should ONLY be driving with traction control OFF on track.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by stugray

Look at it another way:
I had my car all day long on the track for a HPDE.
My teenage son & I shared sessions with a professional driving instructor.

I never turned off ANY of the systems
Yet - we still drove the crap out of the car and had a ton of fun doing it.
learned more than a year's worth of driving on the street under any circumstances.
rarely engaged the systems

And under the small number of cases where it DID step in, it saved us from a spin that would have meant a stop in the hot pit for a tech inspect..

So - Anyone who says that they drive conservatively on the street and keep getting stepped on by the nannies should get their system checked out.

The nannies are constantly going on any modern car dealing out the tiniest hint of under or over steer. This corrupts the throttle response & it is noticeable. Like in most cars turn off traction control &/or stability control and you find the car more responsive. You'll also find the car starts to properly understeer & oversteer.

The guy I use for car control training has a corner which has been specifically built for teaching you about nanny intervention. Go through the corner at a constant speed & neutral throttle so there's a bit of tension in the chassis. Any car with stability & traction control will keep a nice neutral line at 30-40mph, no indication on the dash anything is happening. Turn the nannies off & unless you're really good you'll spin at same speed. FWD, AWD, RWD it doesn't matter, you'll spin. The first time driver response is almost always like WTF?!