Trying to figure out which tires to get, need help

[SirBrass]

I'm pretty much set on staying with my stock wheel dimensions (17x7) since I'm trying to get into Auto Cross and want to stay in stock class for a while.

It also means I'm set on the tire size I want: 225/45/R17.

What I'm trying to figure out is what tires to get. I want an "all round" tire, so not just a good DD tire, but one which is pretty good for AutoX, too, with good dry and wet traction. So, the better wearing extreme summers are something I'd consider if they don't wear super hard as DDs (aka, I can reasonably get 20k miles out of them).

My list of tires is currently as listed:
MPSS
Bridgestone S-04 Pole Positions
BGF Rivals
Conti DW

I live in Phoenix, so we can run summers year-round. If this were a case where I was just looking for some good "autocross cheater tires", a set of RS3s, or ZII's or something like that would be the easy choice. But as it is, I'm looking for a good grippy set of tires that won't wear too fast but also will perform decently for the occassional Autocross day.

Input and suggestions? Feel free to suggest something different than what I've listed.

[fatoni]

the stock rim to stay in a stock class and then not running a competitive tire is a lose-lose compromise if you ask me. if you arent running the absolute tire in the class you arent going to win and if you arent going to win, why be married to that wheel size or that class at all? i would suggest either make use of everything that a race class has to offer, or build the car you want and have fun in whatever class you land in.

also the rivals are every bit as much of a "cheater" tire as the rs3 or star spec if not more.

[ZDan]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=172

Dunlop ZII, Bridgestone RE11A, and Yoko AD08R are likely more DD streetable than the BFG Rival based on wet grip. I'd probably lean more to the RE11A and AD08R if hydroplaning resistance is a concern.

MPSS are great tires (have them on my FD), should work great for your usage. Better in wet/inundated conditions, but more $$$ and less hardcore for autoX.

Another option: Nitto NT05 (not much water-channeling capacity, though!)

[Sterling Doc]

MPSS are very streetable, and durable (held up amazingly well to a track day). I am sure they give up something to Rival's, etc., but if you are going to be really competitive, you might as well give up a little bit for daily driving comfort. The MPSS are cheap in the OEM 215/45/17 size, as well.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Sterling Doc

MPSS are very streetable, and durable (held up amazingly well to a track day). I am sure they give up something to Rival's, etc., but if you are going to be really competitive, you might as well give up a little bit for daily driving comfort. The MPSS are cheap in the OEM 215/45/17 size, as well.

If I'm going to be really competitive then I'm going to move out of stock class.

Reason I want to stay in stock for now is because I'm brand-spanking new to AutoX (and competitive motor sports in general) and need to learn to drive well with my car mostly stock.

Cost and lack of space to properly store a second set of tires and wheels only for AutoX (which I may not get to do as frequently as Sundays are a definite "ain't gonna happen" as far as competing on those days is concerned) is the reason I need to find a happy balance.

Thing is, my instructors at Saturday's AutoX Driver's School we had said that for now, staying stock is a great idea but to definitely get some better tires (I'm on OEM stock HP Primacy tires right now), as my morning instructor easily found the OEM tires' limit without really trying.

As I'm not diving in full throttle just yet, there's not a good financial reason for me to get a dedicated set of AutoX tires at the moment.

Wet traction isn't a big thing for me, just so long as the tire is reasonably good in the wet (not for competition but just safe for potential need to emergency maneuver/brake with trac control and vdc ON while in the wet). This is Phoenix. It hardly ever rains here. It's just that when it DOES, the roads are REALLY wet. So, going with something with crap for wet traction isn't a good idea, but I need dry traction like the folks in Seattle need wet traction.

I'd heard the Rivals wore well and were pretty good on wear compared to other extreme summers. I know the MPSS's are supposed to be the unicorn of summer DD tires, but I'm just trying to figure out if something a little grippy-er could be found that wears pretty good (if not as well as the MPSS's).

[Sterling Doc]

Sounds like Rivals will work for you then. Noise and ride might give up something, but the MPSS talents in the rain (which are awsome) would be wasted in your situation.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by ZDan

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=172

Dunlop ZII, Bridgestone RE11A, and Yoko AD08R are likely more DD streetable than the BFG Rival based on wet grip. I'd probably lean more to the RE11A and AD08R if hydroplaning resistance is a concern.

MPSS are great tires (have them on my FD), should work great for your usage. Better in wet/inundated conditions, but more $$$ and less hardcore for autoX.

Another option: Nitto NT05 (not much water-channeling capacity, though!)

All very true , but I still like the ZII for the thrill of riding on rails around high G corners. Worth the trade off - especially for our cars (putting lower performance tires on em is a waste of fun factor).

Unfortunately I track and have to buy a new set every year

[SirBrass]

How long do the ZII's usually last?

[DarkSunrise]

MPSS

[RFB]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

How long do the ZII's usually last?

I think they have a tread wear rating of 200.

I had direzza's that lasted a year, cause when I brought the car out in the spring my first track day was the beginning of summer and they had hardened and lost the fabulous grip. By the end of summer and several track days it was like riding on square wagon wheels

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by RFB

I think they have a tread wear rating of 200.

I had direzza's that lasted a year, cause when I brought the car out in the spring my first track day was the beginning of summer and they had hardened and lost the fabulous grip. By the end of summer and several track days it was like riding on square wagon wheels

Tread wear ratings are only comparable within a Manufacturer's range of tires. The MPSSs have a 30,000 mile warranty in square form and will last much longer on the street than the Rivals or ZII and would be my recommendation.

[SirBrass]

Is what I'm giving up in grip by using MPSS's over something like Rivals or ZII's not all that bad or fairly significant in terms of Auto Cross?

[RFB]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Tread wear ratings are only comparable within a Manufacturer's range of tires. The MPSSs have a 30,000 mile warranty in square form and will last much longer on the street than the Rivals or ZII and would be my recommendation.

I like the super sports but the thrill Dunlop R's stickiness under g-force over the Michelins drifting makes up for the quick wear harsher ride etc.

Most in my neck of the woods agree that economically, for a DD, the MPSS is the choice -

But for me I didn't buy the car for a DD (Although I do DD it). Got it for the thrill - (And I pay to play).

Forgot - BECAUSE RACE CAR !

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Is what I'm giving up in grip by using MPSS's over something like Rivals or ZII's not all that bad or fairly significant in terms of Auto Cross?

In Auto X a tenth of a second can be significant, so my answer would be yes. You could easily lose multiple tenths by going with the MPSS over the Rivals, ZIIs, or RS3s.