A conversation with a Toyota service manager about modding and warranties

[guybo]

Today my car got its first oil change. It's one of the free oil changes, I chose to do it at 3000 miles even though the maintenance book says to do it at 7500 miles. They did the entire service, they didn't balk at all about the mileage and said I can do the free services whenever I want, they don't care about the intervals. $0.00 no problems at all.

Then I wanted to gauge how the dealership feels about warranties and modding a car. That's why I put this is thread in the Warranties section. I spoke to a very cool and helpful service mgr who seemed pretty knowledgeable and no BS and this guy mods his own car- it's a Mustang, not a Toyota though. I asked specifically about the powertrain warranty. Toyota covers the initial 60,000 mile warranty for our cars; I have an extended warranty up to 80,000 miles and this dealership has a "lifetime warranty" on the powertrain, both are covered by a 3rd party insurance co.

The service mgr said that Toyota is pretty lenient about warranties even if the car has been modified with aftermarket parts. The guy told me to just reinstall the OEM parts and bring the car in if there's a problem. He said TRD parts are not a prob at all they are treated like OEM parts (I was like well, duh- but I figured I'd mention anyway). He even said I could call him and he'd tell me which parts to reinstall for the issue I have. Yeah, he was really cool about HARDWARE mods. He said even if I wanted to do something like gut the OEM header, no problem, just keep the orig header so I can put it back on just in case- it's what he does with his own car. Intake, full exhaust, full suspension, wheels whatever- do anything and everything just keep the OEM parts.

He was honest about the extended lifetime powertrain warranty. The insurance co will be a "real pain in the ass" (his quote) and will try to deny warranty work on the powertrain for any mod you do. He said they try to deny coverage on the engine if you even put aftermarket wheels on... Again, his words. Toyota is not the prob from what he says, it's the insurance co that tries to bone you.

Hardware is one thing, tuning is another. He said that if Toyota sees that you have tuned your car, reflashed or messed with the ECM at all- your powertrain warranty coverage will be denied. Period. He also said that there's a flash counter in the ECM and they can tell pretty easily if the ECM has been flashed. He also said screw it, just do it, it's YOUR CAR do whatever you want. He didn't say anything about flagging cars or noting what mods are done. If you need warranty work, Toyota sends a rep down to look at your car and that person decides on whether you are in warranty or not. So reinstall the OEM mods before that guy looks at your car. But he says you can't hide ECM reflashing and they look for that first.

TL;DR Do whatever you want to the hardware and keep OEM equip to reinstall if you have a warranty issue down the line. Don't touch the ECM if you want to keep the warranty intact.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by guybo

He said that if Toyota sees that you have tuned your car, reflashed or messed with the ECM at all- your powertrain warranty coverage will be denied. Period.

And that's just a blanket statement that can be picked apart.

If you reflash the ECU you still have the warranty.

Example:

I reflash ECU. MAF sensor goes haywire. I have a claim.
I reflash ECU. Cam sensor goes haywire. I have a claim.

Just because you have the ECU flashed doesn't mean you lose ALL your coverage on the powertrain.

[guybo]

I'm just relaying what he said. But there again, those sensors aren't part of the powertrain and I didn't ask specifically about ancillary engine components.

[gramicci101]

So he's recommending that you commit fraud? Reinstalling OEM parts and pretending they were always there for the purpose of convincing Toyota to pay for warranty work is fraud.

Originally Posted by dictionary.law.com

Fraud: n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by guybo

I'm just relaying what he said. But there again, those sensors aren't part of the powertrain and I didn't ask specifically about ancillary engine components.

Actually it is.

Powertrain is all things engine and transmission related, up to (and including) rear axles, rear wheel bearings, ECU, engine electronics, etc.

Powertrain Warranty
This warranty covers repairs needed to
correct defects in materials or
workmanship of any component listed
in the next two columns and supplied
by Scion, subject to the exceptions
indicated under “What Is Not Covered”
on pages 14-15.
Coverage is for 60 months or
60,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

Engine
Cylinder block and head and all
internal parts, timing gears and
gaskets, timing chain/belt and cover,
flywheel, valve covers, oil pan, oil
pump, engine mounts, turbocharger
housing and all internal parts, super
charger housing and all internal parts,
engine control computer, water pump,
fuel pump, seals and gaskets.
Transmission and Transaxle
Case and all internal parts, torque
converter, clutch cover, transmission
mounts, transfer case and all internal
parts, engine control computer, seals
and gaskets.

Front-Wheel-Drive System
Final drive housing and all internal
parts, axle shafts, drive shafts,
constant velocity joints, front hub and
bearings, seals and gaskets.

Rear-Wheel-Drive System
Axle housing and all internal parts,
propeller shafts, U-joints, axle shafts,
drive shafts, bearings, supports, seals
and gaskets.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So he's recommending that you commit fraud? Reinstalling OEM parts and pretending they were always there for the purpose of convincing Toyota to pay for warranty work is fraud.

And he'd help by letting you know what to reinstall. Maybe his boss would say something different but I'm calling the service mgr i dpoke eith for advice if anything bad happens.

I'm not going to get an OFT or Ecutek tune until my car's paid for. I'm going to get the Unichip and a catless header based on this conversation.

[zc06_kisstherain]

Never ending story about Modding with Warranty..
i heard same shit 10 years ago
i heard exact same shit 5 years ago.
Guess what now?
It hasnt changed

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by guybo

And he'd help by letting you know what to reinstall. Maybe his boss would say something different but I'm calling the service mgr i dpoke eith for advice if anything bad happens.

I'm not going to get an OFT or Ecutek tune until my car's paid for. I'm going to get the Unichip and a catless header based on this conversation.

If you have to ask the service tech about the warranty and modding you shouldn't mod your car. You pay to play, and if something fails related to the mods don't go crying back to the dealership

[billwot]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Actually it is.

Powertrain is all things engine and transmission related, up to (and including) rear axles, rear wheel bearings, ECU, engine electronics, etc.

Nope! Please note that itemized list does NOT mention sensors, or any other I/O devices associated with engine management. "Powertrain" refers to the system of mechanical components

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by guybo

And he'd help by letting you know what to reinstall. Maybe his boss would say something different but I'm calling the service mgr i dpoke eith for advice if anything bad happens.

I'm not going to get an OFT or Ecutek tune until my car's paid for. I'm going to get the Unichip and a catless header based on this conversation.

Are there even Unichip tunes for catless headers? On this platform, Unichip has been kind of pointless.

[guybo]

I've read that it can utilize catless headers- there are lots of custom "tunes" you can download- I still have a lot more research to do on it though. But it can't turn off the P0420 from what I understand so I'd have to use an O2 spacer. Unichip isn't as good as a remap, but it's easily uninstalled.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by billwot

Nope! Please note that itemized list does NOT mention sensors, or any other I/O devices associated with engine management. "Powertrain" refers to the system of mechanical components

Even if you exclude the harness and sensors, any blanket denial of warranty claim just because the ECU is flashed can still be picked apart.

I don't care how much of a d-bag a car owner can be, there's still no grounds for blanket denial of coverage just because one item is modified. That's just dealers and corporate reps taking advantage of misinformed end users.

Plus, this info coming from a dealership advocating fraud is just funny. At the end of the day the dealer just cares about their money and nothing else.

-alex

[Packofcrows]

Depends on dealer...SOME will try to deny you even for exhaust while others will be more welcoming and provide more lenient customer service.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by guybo

I've read that it can utilize catless headers- there are lots of custom "tunes" you can download- I still have a lot more research to do on it though. But it can't turn off the P0420 from what I understand so I'd have to use an O2 spacer. Unichip isn't as good as a remap, but it's easily uninstalled.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Are there even Unichip tunes for catless headers? On this platform, Unichip has been kind of pointless.

Unichip is a joke and daemano knows it

A OFT tune is just as easy if not easier to uninstall, and leaves no footprint as does flashing back to stock on an ecutek tune. If you as you say are putting your oem parts back on for warranty work this shouldn't be an issue.