Direct Injector Leaking

[wootwoot]

It has been seen via data log. Check CSG mikes thread. The last few pages has some data log screen shots.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by welllam

Has anyone successfully captured the knocking sound?

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=450Pov98STg"]BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube[/ame]

You can hear it "pop" at the dips.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

Not misfires, detonation. Also called spark knock, sounds like pinging from the engine. Most modern cars will have some light detonation from time to time, and it's considered normal. Any time you have detonation the cylinder pressures are higher than during normal combustion. Apparently this is blowing out the nylon seal.

Roger that.


(The TSB used the word misfire. That is why I used it in my post.)

[andrew20195]

Right. After periods of detonation resulting in seal failure, the cylinder will lose compression around the injector which results in a misfire. ;-)

[Carwhisperer]

Mine never popped at idle, but once you give it a little throttle in any gear it sounds like the 4th of July. Firecrackers going off left and right.

[whtchocla7e]

Mine only pops at idle and only at temperatures lower than 65*F so far (so more likely in the winter)

Do you guys think it still could be the same issue? Is there something about these seals that is temperature-variant?

Here's a video a posted a while ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky_vDK4ePHI

[Carwhisperer]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

Mine only pops at idle and only at temperatures lower than 65*F so far (so more likely in the winter)

Do you guys think it still could be the same issue? Is there something about these seals that is temperature-variant?

Here's a video a posted a while ago:

Your injectors should be okay as long as you don't hear any popping under moderate acceleration.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

Right. After periods of detonation resulting in seal failure, the cylinder will lose compression around the injector which results in a misfire. ;-)

And is my understanding correct that the AFR is subsequently too lean resulting in even higher combustion chamber temps, which ultimately leads to burned pistons and a destroyed engine?

Track driving would likely exacerbate the problems either from initial high operating temps and/or persistent high operating temps, much higher than one would likely see in brisk road driving.

Is that what's happening here?

[spitz]

Looks like I'll be off the track until Subaru/Toyota make the ECU flashes official

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Porsche

And is my understanding correct that the AFR is subsequently too lean resulting in even higher combustion chamber temps, which ultimately leads to burned pistons and a destroyed engine?

Track driving would likely exacerbate the problems either from initial high operating temps and/or persistent high operating temps, much higher than one would likely see in brisk road driving.

Is that what's happening here?

Very interesting.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

Right. After periods of detonation resulting in seal failure, the cylinder will lose compression around the injector which results in a misfire. ;-)

So, let me see if I have this straight. We're talking about detonation caused by a fuel/octane issue (?) or an incorrect-from-the-factory timing issue (?). Either way, a software update that adjusts the timing might/will fix it.

The reason that a track car might blow up under this condition and the same car driven on the street might not has to do with a slightly increased temperature achieved on the track (?).

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Marrk

So, let me see if I have this straight. We're talking about detonation caused by a fuel/octane issue (?) or an incorrect-from-the-factory timing issue (?). Either way, a software update that adjusts the timing might/will fix it.

The reason that a track car might blow up under this condition and the same car driven on the street might not has to do with a slightly increased temperature achieved on the track (?).

Right, but once the seal is blown, the ECU flash won't fix it. The seal will need to be replaced at that point.

[Marrk]

^^Understood.


Should one be concerned, I wonder, about a seal that is not damaged enough to need replacing, but has been weakened as a result of this condition . . . ?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Right, but once the seal is blown, the ECU flash won't fix it. The seal will need to be replaced at that point.

Yes.

But ... if we take it over 5200 rpm, employ wide-open throttle, and upshift "aggressively", WOT - Closed - WOT, then we may need to replace it yet again next week. GM apparently calls the phenomenon "burst knock." See: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...1725e&start=20

What role does "excessive" heat play? Guys on track are recording quite high oil temps, apparently.

I wonder what that Crawford(?) fellow who built the monster FA20 turbo motor thinks about all of this? He's making his 500 hp(?) motor last at least for a little while. What's he doing different? Then again, maybe the only similarity to our engines is the crankcase.

As others have said, this is worrisome. I'm becoming reluctant to drive our BRZ at all hard, never mind take it on the track. But this little 2-liter begs for wide open throttle (WOT) and revving over 5200 rpm. If that is now too risky, well...

Not for a moment do I believe Subaru is in the dark about these issues. In my mind, Subaru is stonewalling Mike and others. I'm not reassured by Subaru's behavior. I'm actually beginning to entertain thoughts of selling this car now with less than 5k miles on it, precipitous as that may sound. Ordinarily, I'd never say such a thing.

So what if they replace my injector components. How badly have my pistons already been damaged? How close is my engine to catastrophic failure now?

I dislike this sort of uncertainty and ambiguity; it's more than I originally bargained for when I bought a first year, brand-new design. I expected teething troubles, but this threat of catastrophic engine failure is unexpected.