Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

It's ZZW30 actually. You're mixing up your variables as well. The target price was higher due to smaller anticipated low volume for a MR convertible. Hence the premium. Depends on what the vendor is trying to do. Pickups are the about the cheapest PoS vehicle you can make but are marked up like crazy due to demand. Hence the massive profits.

That's what I don't get about their sports car pricing. They don't anticipate high volume so price it high to improve profit based on said volume. Then act fucking shocked when they don't sell any BECAUSE THEY ARE SO OVERPRICED for what they are. Maybe more people would have bought ZZW30s if they weren't charging so much for a Corolla-powered sports car.

Goddamn marketing goofs...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Why?

Article talks about a new chassis for the new 'supra'

That chassis by all indication has nothing to do with the chassis Subaru is producing for the 86.

That chassis is rumored to be used for the new < $20k car.

By the time this will be implemented the 86 will be due for a refresh, they have the choice to keep paying Subaru to build the 86 OR use this new chassis they spent a bunch of money developing in house and creating the tooling and production capacity to produce it meaning they get to keep all the profits in house instead of paying someone else's overhead. Why would they continue with the 86 when they'll be able to make a suitable more profitable version on their own? The tensions between the two companies are already known.

Unless it comes out that Subaru is building the Supra I think the "second generation of the Toyobaru" will have a lot less 'baru' in it.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Article talks about a new chassis for the new 'supra'

That chassis by all indication has nothing to do with the chassis Subaru is producing for the 86.

That chassis is rumored to be used for the new < $20k car.

By the time this will be implemented the 86 will be due for a refresh, they have the choice to keep paying Subaru to build the 86 OR use this new chassis they spent a bunch of money developing in house and creating the tooling and production capacity to produce it meaning they get to keep all the profits in house instead of paying someone else's overhead. Why would they continue with the 86 when they'll be able to make a suitable more profitable version on their own? The tensions between the two companies are already known.

Unless it comes out that Subaru is building the Supra I think the "second generation of the Toyobaru" will have a lot less 'baru' in it.

People need to stop with this 'tension between the two companies' bullshit.

They are partners. Toyota owns 15+% of FHI, of which Subaru is only one (albeit the largest) division, which includes aerospace and heavy machinery.

Toyota gets a return on every single model Subaru sells. Subaru gets assistance in modernizing their archaic engine line. They sell more cars because of it. They make more money. Toyota makes more money.

Subaru gets a new market and sales with their sporty secretary's car. Subaru makes more money. Toyota gets to revive its performance cred. Win-win.

High fives all around in the boardroom.

This all stems from N*SIOC's idiotic SOA Blog and the pre-release bullshit d!ck-waving they would vomit all over that forum, that has since been proven wrong.

(I can't believe we still have that phony AS1 designation on this forum...)

Anyways, I would love to see a better F:R weight distribution (Mk 3 and 4 Supras matched or beat it with long iron block L6s ffs) and front double wishbones on a future 86 chassis.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

WTF are you talking about? Economies of scale applies to the reduction in the cost of the hybrid powertrain from the Prius since 2001! That's millions of units dude. Why do you think the Prius C is as cheap as it and Toyota can now make money on them. Stop arguing with blinders on.

?? The 2 have nothing to do with each other, so why the eff would you connect the two? We were talking about 'targets', price for the Toyota and weight for Mazda and Ford. Targets get missed. Has nothing to do with a hybrid sports car precedent, whatever you mean by that. You have sloppy logic my friend.

You've obviously already built the car using your imagination and used your crystals to look into the future of Toyota. I can't argue with that level of expertise. I look forward to seeing your comprehensive BOM list.

im not arguing with blinders on. blinders would mean there is something that im not seeing. im not seeing a 16k hybrid sports car because there has never been one ever. there is no reason to believe that there is one on the horizon. combining a 19k car with a 25k car and getting a 16k car sounds unreasonable to me.

i havent built anything. i dont have answers. im just pointing out that if something has never happened in the entire existence of car and there is no breakhrough that would indicate a change, it probably isnt going to happen. companies dont build a 16k sports car today. they dont build a 16k hybrid today. i find it hard to believe that there will be a combination of both for that price in 2015

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

All interviews with Calty designs have said around [/URL]

When the MR2 Spyder was first announce it was projected to sell at approximately $19K it was released with a price of $23,389. The FR-S was projected to be priced at $20K. It was released at $24,255. So, Toyota has a history of missing their projected price point by 20-25%. Take Calty's projected price target of $50K-$60K and you have a possible actual price of $62,500 on the low side to $75,000 on the high.

I will split the difference and predict $68,750.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Cayman and 4C are mid engines. The Z4 and SLK are much smaller than FT-1. Audi TT is fail wheel/awd. RS5, M4 and C63 AMG coupe competes with other luxury coupes like the Lexus RC-F. Maybe the Mustang.

Point is just because something has 2 doors and priced the same does not mean they are direct competitors

So you think that nobody will be cross-shopping other ~$60k sports cars just because the engine is in a different spot or because they have AWD? I wouldn't count on that - just because something happens to have a different design decision doesn't mean that it isn't a competitor.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

FT1CLUB . COM

???

PROFIT

http://www.statscrop.com/www/ft1club.com

looks like you're 28 days behind

[Dave-ROR]

It took the detroit auto show by storm? How? Barely anyone was looking at it when I was there and no one was asking the Toyota reps about it. :shrug:

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Article talks about a new chassis for the new 'supra'

That chassis by all indication has nothing to do with the chassis Subaru is producing for the 86.

That chassis is rumored to be used for the new < $20k car.

By the time this will be implemented the 86 will be due for a refresh, they have the choice to keep paying Subaru to build the 86 OR use this new chassis they spent a bunch of money developing in house and creating the tooling and production capacity to produce it meaning they get to keep all the profits in house instead of paying someone else's overhead. Why would they continue with the 86 when they'll be able to make a suitable more profitable version on their own? The tensions between the two companies are already known.

Unless it comes out that Subaru is building the Supra I think the "second generation of the Toyobaru" will have a lot less 'baru' in it.

The money has already been invested. Nobody comes out with a new model from ground up with a three year lifecycle. For them to bail so early would cost them more money. 2015 makes sense since they are waiting for the competition to show up and respond. Move too early and they get to have the last word. Toyobaru has the opportunity to maintain the advantage of primacy and recency while they wait on competitors to figure out wth they want to do.

I don't disagree the Toyobaru relationship has been icy at best. But I don't think they will allow pride to get in the way of relatively sound business decisions. The 86 is likely locked in for another 3 years which is probably when the new cars would be out.

[Captain Insano]

Bring on the Supra!!















I'll need to wait to afford a used one at that price point, but I'm still excited.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by chrisl

So you think that nobody will be cross-shopping other ~$60k sports cars just because the engine is in a different spot or because they have AWD? I wouldn't count on that - just because something happens to have a different design decision doesn't mean that it isn't a competitor.

I never said that. A small number of people may. I don't have the numbers, do you? Otherwise wise you are just making an assumption. But anyways that wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about direct competitions. Like how the twins don't actually have any true competitors. Buyers of TLs may cross shop between that and the G37 but that doesn't mean they are direct competitors.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It took the detroit auto show by storm? How? Barely anyone was looking at it when I was there and no one was asking the Toyota reps about it. :shrug:

maybe you went on a bad day or something. photos and youtube videos posted on other forums show tons of people looking at it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gymratter

maybe you went on a bad day or something. photos and youtube videos posted on other forums show tons of people looking at it.

I did go near the end, maybe it was old news by then lol

Far more people around the new Z06. Toyota was in a bad spot this year too IMO.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by chrisl

So you think that nobody will be cross-shopping other ~$60k sports cars just because the engine is in a different spot or because they have AWD? I wouldn't count on that - just because something happens to have a different design decision doesn't mean that it isn't a competitor.

lol you are telling us that someone that is looking at a high power C7 will also be interested in a fail wheel drive TT and a smaller less powerful roadsters like a Z4 and SLK.

now I could see people cross shop between the C7 & FT1 with the M4, SR5, C63 AMG and RCF. but not with those little 3 roadster you posted.

by your own words that would mean the Z4 takes sales from the 4 series/M4. TT takes sales from the A5/S5/SR5 and ect.

look at it this way. back in 90s I just did not see people cross shopping between the MK4 Supra and SC300/400. one is a sports car while the other is a luxury coupe.