Toyota GR Yaris

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Is the Veloster N not that?

Fair, but it suffers from its badge, and it's so forgettable. The Golf has a ton of character. The Veloster has not much memorable except for an uneven amount of doors. It does everything really well, but it just isn't interesting.

[Irace86.2.0]

It is hard to say how a hot hatch Corolla will do. In general, 5 door hatches seem to be on the decline in favor of small crossovers/suvs like sedans.

The GTI outsold the base Golf 3 to 1, but I think that is because most people would rather buy a larger compact-sedan than a compact-hatch, and when someone does want a hatch, they tend to want a hot hatch. Maybe performance oriented buyers understand that the hatch is inherently a better platform than a crossover, and the utility oriented buyers understand that the crossover is inherently a better platform than a hatch (not always for storage, but just for doing it all, has AWD as an option, sometimes more upright seating position, taller view of the road, easier for off-roading, easier step in height, etc)

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/03/...mor-gti-sales/

This theory is backed up by this statistic about manual transmission sales, which the theory is that manual transmission buyers want a sportier car, ergo, the fact that the hatches sold many more manual transmissions than the sedans mean hatches might sell better as hot hatches:

The take rate for the manual Corolla hatch is just 15 percent. If you expand the sales to include the Corolla sedan, then the numbers drop to less than one per cent.

With that said, Toyota sells a lot of hatches (before getting into crossovers) such as the Corolla, Yaris and Prius, so not all hatches might sell better as hot hatches, if you follow me.

https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/...actually-sells

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It is hard to say how a hot hatch Corolla will do. In general, 5 door hatches seem to be on the decline in favor of small crossovers/suvs like sedans.

The GTI outsold the base Golf 3 to 1, but I think that is because most people would rather buy a larger compact-sedan than a compact-hatch, and when someone does want a hatch, they tend to want a hot hatch. Maybe performance oriented buyers understand that the hatch is inherently a better platform than a crossover, and the utility oriented buyers understand that the crossover is inherently a better platform than a hatch (not always for storage, but just for doing it all, has AWD as an option, sometimes more upright seating position, taller view of the road, easier for off-roading, easier step in height, etc)

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/03/...mor-gti-sales/

This theory is backed up by this statistic about manual transmission sales, which the theory is that manual transmission buyers want a sportier car, ergo, the fact that the hatches sold many more manual transmissions than the sedans mean hatches might sell better as hot hatches:



With that said, Toyota sells a lot of hatches (before getting into crossovers) such as the Corolla, Yaris and Prius, so not all hatches might sell better as hot hatches, if you follow me.

https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/...actually-sells

I could see the Veloster N not getting much appeal because it's Hyundai. But we haven't see a 'hot' version of a Corolla since the old XRS. And I'm mostly referring to the XRS with the zingy 2ZZ-GE from the Celica. I mean, that's why the GR Yaris or a GR Corolla is so appealing to me over a GTI, Golf R or Veloster.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I'm afraid that, in order to sell, a GR Corolla would have to be better than the GTI in every way.
And it probably wouldn't be.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I'm afraid that, in order to sell, a GR Corolla would have to be better than the GTI in every way.
And it probably wouldn't be.

We will see...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by weederr33

We will see...

I would love to be wrong honestly.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I'm afraid that, in order to sell, a GR Corolla would have to be better than the GTI in every way.
And it probably wouldn't be.

Why?

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I would love to be wrong honestly.

That's why we're gonna change that negative attitude, sir/ma'am.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Why?

I just don't see current Toyota pulling that off. I feel like they can do crazy like the GR Yaris, or lukewarm. look at the hot Camry, it doesn't inspire confidence in me that a hot Corolla will be what enthusiasts want.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I just don't see current Toyota pulling that off. I feel like they can do crazy like the GR Yaris, or lukewarm. look at the hot Camry, it doesn't inspire confidence in me that a hot Corolla will be what enthusiasts want.

Different strokes for different folks. Some liked the looks, features, or setup of the CTR over the Golf R, or the STI over the Focus RS, or whatever. Some cars had better performance. Some had better interior quality. Some had more tuning potential. Some had better reliability. Whatever.

I don't think its a dichotomy where the Corolla has to be better in every way or else people will buy the GTI. That isn't how the market works. It isn't how it has been with any car. There is brand loyalty, feature differences and looks that will make someone choose one car over the other.

The Golf/GTI are not the market leaders by volume anyways. That fact, and the fact that Toyota no longer makes the Matrix, which was their "sporty" hatchback, suggests that the Corolla hatchback and hot hatch variant could do very well.

[why?]

Originally Posted by JD001

I can understand why you are "anti-fwd". Yaris and Saab would not be on my list of good FWD examples ..

The Yaris when it first came out was winning SCCA all over the country, and even has a few nationals podiums. It is an amazing fun little car, and the auto journalists that bash it are clueless imbeciles. With a set of cheap Megan coilovers it was phenomenal. There is still a single make Yaris race in Japan for a reason.



And the Viggen was phenomenal. Saab made some of the best handling front wheel drive cars around.

Originally Posted by NemesisPrime909

this may have been one of the most depressing posts i've seen on this site. But you're not wrong. it's why Mitsubishi only sells an suv and 3 crossovers now. Around here people adore the new Mustang and the Challenger.

So the question is, how do we keep Japanese sports cars alive in the US when the demographic is the way it is?

We don't. The US demographic wants no part of 2 door cars, even the pony cars are selling less than they use to. The only chance they have is to get drifting, rallying, and rallycross far more popular.

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Fair, but it suffers from its badge, and it's so forgettable. The Golf has a ton of character. The Veloster has not much memorable except for an uneven amount of doors. It does everything really well, but it just isn't interesting.

The golf is forgettable, and you can never forget the electrical gremlins that had a majority of vw group cars sit at least half their lives in dealerships broken.


The Veloster is incredibly sexy. and Hyundai isn't what it use to be, frankly the reliability is far better than VW could ever fantasize about.

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I just don't see current Toyota pulling that off. I feel like they can do crazy like the GR Yaris, or lukewarm. look at the hot Camry, it doesn't inspire confidence in me that a hot Corolla will be what enthusiasts want.

That Camry and Avalon are selling like hotcakes.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by why?

And the Viggen was phenomenal. Saab made some of the best handling front wheel drive cars around.

Saab may have made some great handling cars, however when Vauxhall/GM too over they ended up sharing platforms with mediocre Vauxhall/GM/Fiat cars therefore ended up with very bad badge engineered cars..

[JD001]

Car magazine (issue no.695 June 2020) reviewed the limited run Mini GP mk 3. Limited to 3000 units, 575 earmarked for the UK. Retailing circa £33k. The review pretty positive considering it's a track focused car. The reviewer ends the write-up by saying the Yaris GR4, Renault Mégane RS 300 Trophy or the Honda Civic Type R are compromised when the Mini is "pure high-dose venom. It must be tamed, not teased. Or it will sting."

I'm wondering if Georg Karcher (the reviewer) has actually driven the GR4... If he has then I'm taking his words as gospel..

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by JD001

I'm wondering if Georg Karcher (the reviewer) has actually driven the GR4... If he has then I'm taking his words as gospel..

I read the review and it reads like a lot of metaphors.

"but from behind the wheel, only the car that proudly bears John Cooper's name is pure high dose venom. It must be tamed, not teased."
Sure, I get that but I'm thinking how much does an owner want to compromise? And I'm not suggesting there is a correct answer here, just that the article reads like it may be too demanding, too un-compromised for some people as a daily driver.