Injector Seals went Bad while tuning my car

[Visconti]

Looks like a few guys have too much time on there hands and all they can do is think about me

Anyways this car was doing pretty good on lower boost when we raised the boost we started to get a misfire in the high rpms.

Then we started to see a lean condition so we stopped and pulled the pump out.

We saw some issues with the pump install and fixed them and started back on the Dyno.. Problems continued...

Then did some quick port and direct injection testing.. Car ran very smooth on 100% port injection but would instantly breakup on 100% direct injection.

Direct injection Fuel pressure seems fine , so we're going to change the seals.

At no point have I left my customer hanging. We came up with a game plan before he left and have talked over the weekend.

I find it hilarious that a few of you jump to conclusions so quickly

John

[Sportsguy83]

Yeah, its impossible to keep everyone happy. In one thread, FRS300 and FA20CLUB were made fun off because it seemed all their communication was through the forum (it wasn't, but that's what users assume). Now on this thread, members assume again the only way of communication between OP and Visconti is through the forum and they are killed because they "think" its lacking.... Ever stop to think that maybe just maybe, OP/Visconti and FRS300/FA20CLUB communicate outside of the forums?? Funny indeed..

[Blue86]

I like turtles

[whitefrs]

pic of my Bank 1 Sensor 1 and 2

to me it seems good but they are going replace the whole injector Sensor 1

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

pic of my Bank 1 Sensor 1 and 2

to me it seems good but they are going replace the whole injector Sensor 1

IMHO (and I'm no expert at all, take with huge grain of salt) The O ring looks out of place in the bottom one and the teflon seal looks out of place in the top one, specially considering the installation instructions are very specific of keeping the teflon one very straight.

[charged86]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

pic of my Bank 1 Sensor 1 and 2

to me it seems good but they are going replace the whole injector Sensor 1

Who replaced it?

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

IMHO (and I'm no expert at all, take with huge grain of salt) The O ring looks out of place in the bottom one and the teflon seal looks out of place in the top one, specially considering the installation instructions are very specific of keeping the teflon one very straight.

They will be replacing the one that has more black on it lile the whole injector not just the seal

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by charged86

Who replaced it?

A good friend of mine
He is a toyota tech

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

IMHO (and I'm no expert at all, take with huge grain of salt) The O ring looks out of place in the bottom one and the teflon seal looks out of place in the top one, specially considering the installation instructions are very specific of keeping the teflon one very straight.

^This,
To me the top injector in the picture looks like it is on a cylinder that is not getting enough fuel.. the bottom one looks like normal carbon deposits... if the carbon extended past the teflon seal, then i would for sure think seal failure.

JV said the rail pressure looked good so that sort of rules out the DI pump and spill valve, so could be:
* DI driver box (but i think a code would be thrown for that)
* Coil pack
* Plug problem (gap too wide one one or more cylinders if the issue only happens at higher boost)

I will leave out the worst case scenario until the other are checked / problem is resolved

While working on the injectors, I would go ahead and replace all the plugs with a fresh, equally gaped set and closely inspect the ones that come out for signs of detonation.

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

^This,
To me the top injector in the picture looks like it is on a cylinder that is not getting enough fuel.. the bottom one looks like normal carbon deposits... if the carbon extended past the teflon seal, then i would for sure think seal failure.

JV said the rail pressure looked good so that sort of rules out the DI pump and spill valve, so could be:
* DI driver box (but i think a code would be thrown for that)
* Coil pack
* Plug problem (gap too wide one one or more cylinders if the issue only happens at higher boost)

I will leave out the worst case scenario until the other are checked / problem is resolved

While working on the injectors, I would go ahead and replace all the plugs with a fresh, equally gaped set and closely inspect the ones that come out for signs of detonation.

it will be way more work i think on doing sparg plugs

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

it will be way more work i think on doing sparg plugs

Ok, well, i hope replacing the injector fixes it, but i really don't think you have seal failure so if it were me I would be looking at other causes. P117B points to a DI side fuel supply issue. Reading the plugs, and the injector tips, should help determine if it is isolated to 1 cylinder. And ALL injectors are considered "bank 1" (only 1 upstream 02 sensor) on this engine so i'm curious why you guys only pulled 2 injectors...

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Ok, well, i hope replacing the injector fixes it, but i really don't think you have seal failure so if it were me I would be looking at other causes. P117B points to a DI side fuel supply issue. Reading the plugs, and the injector tips, should help determine if it is isolated to 1 cylinder. And ALL injectors are considered "bank 1" (only 1 upstream 02 sensor) on this engine so i'm curious why you guys only pulled 2 injectors...

He will be pulling the plugs tomorrow
Should i ask him to pull the other 2

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Ok, well, i hope replacing the injector fixes it, but i really don't think you have seal failure so if it were me I would be looking at other causes. P117B points to a DI side fuel supply issue. Reading the plugs, and the injector tips, should help determine if it is isolated to 1 cylinder. And ALL injectors are considered "bank 1" (only 1 upstream 02 sensor) on this engine so i'm curious why you guys only pulled 2 injectors...

Also what else do you think that can cause the problem

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

He will be pulling the plugs tomorrow
Should i ask him to pull the other 2

Again, this engine has no bank 2 as far as OBD codes go so by all means check all 4 pugs and injectors. The problem could be on any of the cylinders if it is a localized problem and not something with the DI fuel delivery side.

Checking the plugs should help you determine the over all health of the motor as will checking all the injectors for seal integrity and injector tips for coloration etc.

My guess is if you have a bad injector it will be obvious when you compare the plug and injector to the other 3. One failed injector would be enough to max out the fuel trims since the others would have to compensate to maintain an average target afr in closed loop.

If all 4 are fairly uniform then you can start looking at something else like the DI driver box.

The thing is, those two codes together would indicate the Di system was not putting out enough fuel under closed loop DI only operation (which means low load on a boosted car) and even with the fuel trims maxed out the front 02 sensor was still seeing a lean condition.... Without seeing some logs all i have to go on is what JV said (ran fine on port only mode) and the rail pressure looked normal.. so that only leaves a few things... bad injector, bad injector driver box, clogged injector etc... I do think you would have a code if the injector driver box has an issue though.

When you ran into the issues at higher boost, did it still run good if you dropped the boost back down?