The Occupy Movement

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That's what they think, they think very few (aka "the 1%") are exploiting the rest. But I don't think this is the case. The root of the problem is the government sellout. When the opportunity to pay off legislators to turn laws in one's favor arises, it is inevitable that some will take that opportunity. To me it is not the fault of corporations and corrupt organizations that exploit this, they are simply taking care of themselves, in a morally questionable way. It is the corrupt regulators and legislators who create the opportunities for corruption.

So I say, if you're going to occupy something, go occupy DC, not Wall Street.

People who bribe government officials are "simply taking care of themselves"? Breaking the law is simply taking care of yourself? I don't understand this very strained logic.

[Ryuu0u]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

So I say, if you're going to occupy something, go occupy DC, not Wall Street.

Yeah if you wana get shot or mugged.

[serialk11r]

The point is it's morally questionable, but people will take the opportunity when it is presented to them. And the fact is, paying off officials in some way or form to get government money happens on an extremely large scale (think unions, particularly government worker ones, or farmers), so it doesn't make sense to concentrate attention on a few corporate pigs (who certainly need to be prosecuted, which isn't really happening either :/).

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by nrclptcnsmniak

Ron Paul 2012?

There is another distinct Occupy movement called Occupy the Fed. I was reading their Facebook feed and they was a debate whether to associate with the OWS group, as if they were a different group. I'm not 100% sure if they are even remotely connected to Occupy Wall Street or Occupy Everything. For example, Occupy San Francisco marched to a Federal Bank office during their protest.

I haven't been paying attention to the media. They are well proven to be both extremely biased and completely unreliable years ago. Not to mention the extensive censoring going on.

[nrclptcnsmniak]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

There is another distinct Occupy movement called Occupy the Fed. I was reading their Facebook feed and they was a debate whether to associate with the OWS group, as if they were a different group. I'm not 100% sure if they are even remotely connected to Occupy Wall Street or Occupy Everything. For example, Occupy San Francisco marched to a Federal Bank office during their protest.

I haven't been paying attention to the media. They are well proven to be both extremely biased and completely unreliable years ago. Not to mention the extensive censoring going on.

yeah thats why youtube is such a powerful tool. You get media from different sources that are not necessarily main stream. You get unedited videos and see things a bit more raw than you would on the tele.

It kind of seems as if each occupy movement in different cities have different goals.

[nrclptcnsmniak]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Some here make a distinction between "government" and "corporation." As in the statement, "The problem is not Wall Street, it's the government." The Occupy Movement would probably respond to this by saying that the problem is that the government is now only serving the interests of corporations, that you cannot get into elected office without corporate donations and backing, and that, in short, the government equals the corporations. You will note that many people in the U.S. believe that what we need in the White House is a business man, someone who knows business, like Herman Cain. Mitt Romney and Michele Bachmann boast of having run businesses, as well. Does this make sense? Does an M.B.A. prepare anyone to be a statesman? Do we want someone who has spent his or her life as a partisan of business to look after our interests? Deregulation in the name of profit? Doing away with the EPA in the name of profit? Destroying the land, the water, the planet in the name of profit? Furthermore, it was the deregulation of banking (by both the Democrats and the Republicans) that led to crisis in mortgage-backed securities, etc.

Some have also gone down the road of "If these people had a job . . ." or "These people should stop whining and get a job . . . ." Indeed, if jobs — decent jobs, good jobs, any jobs — could be had, there would likely be no protest of this kind. Wealth inequality, the decimation of the middle class, and the concentration of capital and access to capital are parts of the problem.

There has also been some pseudo-demagogery about "socialism," a word that is used incorrectly and used for the purpose of inflaming emotions. There is no socialism in the U.S. If there were, you would know it. Having a conscience and recognizing our responsibility to help other human beings is not socialism. That is not to say that every "entitlement program" (another inflammatory term) is perfect.


Just thinkin' out loud here. :happy0180:

And a lot of people are misinterpreting the movement as anti capitalism. Some participating in the movement are actually mixing capitalism and corporation. Capitalism is great but there doesnt seem to be much of a distinction between corporation and government. It seems like our governments best interest is to profit from its tax payers and bail out those big banks that have us by the balls. And I completely agree that we do not need a businessman/ woman to run our country. I remember when Meg Whitman running for CA Governer and thats when it dawned on me that our government has a business mentality. We went from a government ran by God to a government ran by profits and numbers.

I kind of agree with you on the whole job thing. But it seems like we really depend on others to create jobs for us. But in capitalism we can go out and create our own jobs. I say lose the dependency on others to create our jobs and lets create our own. Lets be innovative and push forward and not rely on Steve Jobs to have a factory here creating thousands of jobs for us because "they" simply wont. Because its cheaper to produce over seas and our demand of wanting cheap products is whats driving our economy and the way things are done. And dont tell me we dont want cheap products when people are complaining about the price or the FRS/BRZ :P

I am also really torn on this subject of helping others. My family received food stamps when my parents got divorce and my mom raised 4 of us alone. It helped a lot especially when they aided us on living expenses like our apartment. But at the same time the amount of abuse with things like Medi-cal, Food Stamps aka EBT, and hand outs given to those with no health insurance (I work for a hospital in LA and man do people abuse our system) is ridiculous!! We need a way to take care of those who need it or set up a system where you can feel okay to retire at 65 years old and not be worried about your 401k crashing and burning or this scam called Social Security. The real question is though who do we feel are the ones who can receive our aid and is it really fair to those who work hard? I dont know if you meant it or not but you kind of imply that only people with good moral values believe in helping other human beings :p. Is it really my responsibility for me to pay for your childrens food because you cant keep your legs close and decided to screw around during high school? Then theres the opposite side of the spectrum where a girl gets raped and keeps the child at 16. So do both receive our aid? or just one?

Thinking out loud :P

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Marrk

^^For the moment, they seem to be using the tactic of remaining "unfocused"

That's a huge problem. Every occupy group seems to have different goals, and that's stupid. Hell everyone in every occupy group can have different goals. How can you garner ANY public support when one Occupy group wants X, Y and Z and another wants A, B and C which happen to be wackjob ideads and they throw shit at the cops.. That makes the Occupy group that wants X, Y and Z look bad too even if they are peaceful. And they certainly don't represent the 99%. I'm one of the 99% and think they are mostly morons who need to get off their ass and do something with their lives besides protest about how rough their life is.

Create a set list of goals and have a structure.

Somewhat off topic (but not really as a lot of "Occupiers" fit into this from the one's I've talked to at least), I'm also sick of people blaming others for their own situation in life. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIX IT. Stop being a lazy ass that believes shit should be handed to you and create your own future.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That's a huge problem. Every occupy group seems to have different goals, and that's stupid. Hell everyone in every occupy group can have different goals. How can you garner ANY public support when one Occupy group wants X, Y and Z and another wants A, B and C which happen to be wackjob ideads and they throw shit at the cops.. That makes the Occupy group that wants X, Y and Z look bad too even if they are peaceful. And they certainly don't represent the 99%. I'm one of the 99% and think they are mostly morons who need to get off their ass and do something with their lives besides protest about how rough their life is.

Create a set list of goals and have a structure.

Hey, nobody siad his was going to be easy.

Seriously, though, it will be interesting to see if they can get and maintain traction doing it their way, or if they have to take your advice and set "goals."

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Somewhat off topic (but not really as a lot of "Occupiers" fit into this from the one's I've talked to at least), I'm also sick of people blaming others for their own situation in life. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIX IT. Stop being a lazy ass that believes shit should be handed to you and create your own future.

Yup, that's what protesting is all about.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Yup, that's what protesting is all about.

Not really, at least not the people that went to Occupy Tampa that I've talked to. Every single one of them wants the government to give them more and to take away from people who went out and started their own companies, made them successful and are now very wealthy. Wanting the government to give you more doesn't = going out and creating your own future.

[Zak444]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Not really, at least not the people that went to Occupy Tampa that I've talked to. Every single one of them wants the government to give them more and to take away from people who went out and started their own companies, made them successful and are now very wealthy. Wanting the government to give you more doesn't = going out and creating your own future.

That's a problem with democracies. Once the people find out they can vote themselves benefits then it's all over.

And the people are so ignorant that they think voting is their only obligation in a democracy, but as was said the government and cooperations work together, so even if there are two candidates they are most likely the same, representing the same cooperation or ideals.

[Dimman]

Anyone have to read 1984 in high-school? I think Orwell was mandatory in my school (Animal Farm, too).

It seems to me that the elite are learning more from 1984 than the masses. And that won't be good for the masses...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Anyone have to read 1984 in high-school? I think Orwell was mandatory in my school (Animal Farm, too).

It seems to me that the elite are learning more from 1984 than the masses. And that won't be good for the masses...

Yep, or maybe jr high. I can't remember. I should go back and read it again.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Yep, or maybe jr high. I can't remember. I should go back and read it again.

I think the dis-satisfaction of Occupy is the feeling that it is the elite (gov't, corporations, etc...) that are making the decisions. Not necessarily the rich. And since the elite have a good grasp on manipulating the masses (media) there are no consequences when they simply choose to serve themselves, instead of the people that make them what they are.

They feel like serfs.

[Zak444]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Anyone have to read 1984 in high-school? I think Orwell was mandatory in my school (Animal Farm, too).

It seems to me that the elite are learning more from 1984 than the masses. And that won't be good for the masses...

are you talking about the readiness exercise 1984?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

I haven't read that book. What is it about?