Compression ratio 12.5:1. Bye-bye Super charger & Turbo build?

[jayjayjayjay]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Lot of boost there captain with 300psi. That is like 12034278 gigawatts of power.

Holly shit 300whp edited :-)

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

Im 100% convinced that forced induction is the way to go SC or TC. Depending on the flow characteristics of the motor I do believe a properly sized turbo is better due to:

1) less parasitic loss on the motor, SC uses a pulley, TC obviously uses exhaust gas. This allows for more WHP because the turbo uses less of the engine's energy to operate the turbo than the SC.

2) Due to the less "drag" on the engine, fuel consumption will be very close to stock

3) with the technology behind new turbos, spool lag is almost non existent (twin scroll design, ball bearings instead of journal bearings, "exotic" compounds like ceramic)

yes all true. but also irrelevant imo. the only thing to care about it the end result. if it takes hp to make hp, so be it. as long as the NET hp is good enough for you. when you go up in boost, or hp goal, then yes SC wont cut it. but for this car, for most people, i still vehemently believe SC is better suited. but who knows. lets get the car, you can slap a turbo on it and make a believer out of me. and i'll do the same with a SC kit

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

I believe we win either way.

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

that said, the roots style is not very efficient in general, but it is quite reliable and makes good power. Also if you want something more efficient, I'm sure procharger will come out with something as well.

not AS efficient, but WAY more efficient than it used to be.







but what you give up in efficiency, you gain in flat torque curve, throttle response, proportional boost, less heat, better packaging, easy pulley swaps, etc.

PS: thanks for a civil conversation on FI

[jayjayjayjay]

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

I didn't see this earlier... dude I'm sure you mean 30psi... maybe I dunno. but lemme help you out here... You select your turbo based on what kind of duty your car is doing. For example: a drag car will want a large turbo to increase flow in the upper rpm range to make more peak hp, a road or autox car would want a turbo a bit smaller than a drag car because you want a larger, more tractable powerband with a big meaty torque band. Usually for a dd you want a smaller turbo that spools quickly, but not so small as to congest the exhaust and cause excess backpressure. A daily driver turbo would build max boost +/- 3000rpm because, generally speaking that's the kind of range where you are going to be running quite a bit of the time. Keep in mind also, when you start doing turbo or supercharger builds, you will be moving your powerband to where the particular set up is most efficient, regardless of the stock powerband of the motor.

So in conclusion, you need to figure out what you want to do with the car first and foremost... then you make decisions on your build.

Nice reply. What 300 whp (my error). Drift track car only. Quick spooling. Was working on approx 8-10psi max. Assumption 25-30 hp gained through engine mods.

Preference to run E85.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

TRD had a package for the tezza to take it to 270hp

That kit had the vvti delete, 13.5:1 compression, itbs 295 duration cams on both sides? Question: did the kit increase the stroke? How high did it rev to make that power?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by cyde01

That kit had the vvti delete, 13.5:1 compression, itbs 295 duration cams on both sides? Question: did the kit increase the stroke? How high did it rev to make that power?

Foggy on the specifics, but I can tel you they changed;

Cylinder head Gasket
Piston&Piston Ring
Bearing
Connecting Rod
Crankshaft
Valve train system
Lubrication system
Intake(Quad-set independent throttle)
Exhaust

Think it revved to around 9k rpm.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

Oh, there's a bit of an issue with the option of transplanting a turbo WRX/STi engine into the FT86 for Australians. There's this crappy piece of legislation that says engines can be transplanted legally (I know this is a mere technicality for some people) if they're younger than the build date of the chassis they're being put into. Of course if they're intended to be a track car this isn't an issue, but for those that want to have a turbo FT86 on the road it is.

Thats the same rule thats here in California.

It won't be a problem in a couple years when more newer model WRX/STI's/Legacy/Forester turbos are wrecked and have drivetrains available, but in the meantime it can be a more expensive affair since you would need a 2013 or newer donor car.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Foggy on the specifics, but I can tel you they changed;

Intake(Quad-set independent throttle)

I plan to get ITB's on the FT... Even if I'm the first to do it!

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by madfast

supercharger? moving powerband? not if done right:

gains across the board. flat as flat can be tq curve.

Absolutely I couldn't agree more. In both charts it moved the torque band lower and broader, without the V-tec bump that you usually see around 6k rpm. Thanks for helping to prove my point, plus I don't really think of a civic SI or RSX as having a power band... more like a rubber band. I'm kidding, some Civic Si's are fast, I just haven't found one yet.

Originally Posted by madfast

the only thing to care about it the end result.

Couldn't agree more

Originally Posted by madfast

not AS efficient, but WAY more efficient than it used to be.

That's funny cuz I was going to go find the flow charts for the little TVS's that Eaton makes. People in the SC'd cobalts are easily putting down 300whp with those, and supporting mods.

Originally Posted by madfast

PS: thanks for a civil conversation on FI

LOL no problem, it makes me laugh so hard when people get all crazy and emotional about it. Only one thing really matters... Performance! And everyone needs a certain criteria for a certain application. SC'd or TC'd it is going to be fun as hell with over 300whp in the automotive version of a track shoe. So... when I meet you at the track we can make a pass, or do our fastest lap and :happy0180: with no hard feelings dude.

Originally Posted by jayjayjayjay

Nice reply. What 300 whp (my error). Drift track car only. Quick spooling. Was working on approx 8-10psi max. Assumption 25-30 hp gained through engine mods.

Preference to run E85.

E85 only if tuning can support that. The engine should easily be able to support ethanol due to the port injection. It's super easy to swap those, as opposed to a DI injector. I would think that people could get 50whp easy from bolt (ons, intake, header, exhaust and a tune) because DI responds quite well to tuning, in my experience with my car anyway.

[quik1987]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I plan to get ITB's on the FT... Even if I'm the first to do it!

Like this?
[u2b]ta6iJiKbfHg[/u2b]

[serialk11r]

That doesn't have air filters...wouldn't stuff start blowing up pretty soon?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I plan to get ITB's on the FT... Even if I'm the first to do it!

I'd like to also some day, but i have a bad feeling this car is gonna be dbw. Lets hope someone makes a good itbs kit and an ecu that can tune it.

[Barike]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That doesn't have air filters...wouldn't stuff start blowing up pretty soon?

Looks to me like it isn't complete either... That's an aweful lot of turbo piping that doesn't go anywhere. Just my $0.02 and my first post

[Sully]

Originally Posted by celicajim

Wonder if Cosworth will have a go at the FA20?

Or even just s/c kits(Miata has one). They have engine kits for subaru's now, so we can hope. As well as the ford ducatec/mazda mzr. PRETTY ITB's for those engines So maybe...

Of course, cosworth is a really pricey option.

But hey, quality costs. Buying aftermarket the first few years will really be a crapshoot as far as quality/reliability. But cosworth will almost certainly be perfectly fine and trustworthy from day one.

[Major Clod]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

My mate actually has 2 Beams 3S's in his garage, haha. His daily is a turbo'd 4A powered KE70 sedan

Another Brisbane Beams owner here - I have a Blacktop 3SGE in my '76 RA23 Celica. Great motor for a small car - glad the FT86 is similar in output, though I have to admit I'm ever so slightly disappointed it's specs are just under the Beams which was released 12 years ago.

On all the talk about extracting power out of these - High compression, small capacity, direct injection - sounds like its going to be an expensive / complicated little motor to mod and tune in the early days. Here's hoping there are few brave souls out there that get the ground work going on discovering any potential this motor may have.

Unless you're really willing to pay someone money to essentially do all the RnD for you - you're better off swapping for a proven Subaru turbo motor now (if laws allow) - or waiting until there has been some solid development done on this engine.

For reference, one of the most powerful modded N/A beams motors here in Australia makes approx 190kw at the wheels - stock is around 110-120kw atw.

This is with TRD headers, custom quad throttles, dual stage injection, motec, cams, pistons, rods, head work, etc... Built over years of trial and error with multiple motors and thousands upon thousands of dollars spent. Significant power can be extracted but it's NOT easy and its NOT cheap for these sorts of motors.