Compression ratio 12.5:1. Bye-bye Super charger & Turbo build?

[subatoy]

Turbo kits go for around $5k plus around $1500 for installation.
For $6,500 you can buy a WRX engine and put it in the car and maybe save some money.
the mounting points are exactly the same for the pure reason that
they want to allow people to swap for other Subaru engines.
This car would be an insane beast with a newer 265hp Subaru engine.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

My mate actually has 2 Beams 3S's in his garage, haha. His daily is a turbo'd 4A powered KE70 sedan, and together we actually make aftermarket ECUs... mainly for Toyotas but we're going to do a few more popular models soon. Hopefully the engine management for the FT86 isn't combined with other car functionality, making it very hard to design an aftermarket ECU. With the design mentality they've had for the rest of the car I don't think this will be the case, but they seem to want to chuck most of the electronics in a couple of boxes these days, but make them only work if they're only plugged into each other.

[celicajim]

Wonder if Cosworth will have a go at the FA20?

[PuGZoR]

Oh, there's a bit of an issue with the option of transplanting a turbo WRX/STi engine into the FT86 for Australians. There's this crappy piece of legislation that says engines can be transplanted legally (I know this is a mere technicality for some people) if they're younger than the build date of the chassis they're being put into. Of course if they're intended to be a track car this isn't an issue, but for those that want to have a turbo FT86 on the road it is.

IIRC HKS or GReddy used to have some pretty cool kits designed for fitting a turbo to a NA engine. Not only did it come with the exhaust manifold, turbo, lines, etc, but they also came with low comp pistons and that kind of thing. Fingers crossed that there's no inherent weak points in the engine that would stop kits like this being made, and that they've made it as over-engineered as they have previous engines.

[coyote]

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...jan2011_v3.pdf

[Matador]

Originally Posted by cyde01

nice to see the beams 3sge get some recognition on here. in the japanese formula 3 series they made 300 hp n/a. one can only hope this new boxer has similar potential although you'd have to be seriously rich to afford a build like that and it would be unstreetable.

TRD had a package for the tezza to take it to 270hp NA

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

IIRC HKS or GReddy used to have some pretty cool kits designed for fitting a turbo to a NA engine. Not only did it come with the exhaust manifold, turbo, lines, etc, but they also came with low comp pistons and that kind of thing. Fingers crossed that there's no inherent weak points in the engine that would stop kits like this being made, and that they've made it as over-engineered as they have previous engines.

Yeah, Greddy had a kit for the beams 3S, every piece that can be imagined was included.

[Nambo]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

Oh, there's a bit of an issue with the option of transplanting a turbo WRX/STi engine into the FT86 for Australians. There's this crappy piece of legislation that says engines can be transplanted legally (I know this is a mere technicality for some people) if they're younger than the build date of the chassis they're being put into. Of course if they're intended to be a track car this isn't an issue, but for those that want to have a turbo FT86 on the road it is.

Oh snap, didn't know about this legislation...I guess some will still go with it but that would void the insurance in an event of an incident.

Originally Posted by coyote

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...jan2011_v3.pdf

Thanks for link, good read!

[jayjayjayjay]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

diesels are what 17:1? MOST of them are boosted LOL
with petrol, and 12.5:1 you will get low boost but LOTS of power. energy is extracted MORE at a higher comp ratio, so a 10:1 running 10PSI will get more power than a 8:1 running 10PSI

What might be interesting for FI fans is to go for the smallest possible turbos to keep the weight gains down. Smaller turbos will also keep lag to a minimum. 300psi (edit to 300whp) with lower boost keep weight down will see the car on a lot of drift tracks.

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

IIRC HKS or GReddy used to have some pretty cool kits designed for fitting a turbo to a NA engine. Not only did it come with the exhaust manifold, turbo, lines, etc, but they also came with low comp pistons and that kind of thing. Fingers crossed that there's no inherent weak points in the engine that would stop kits like this being made, and that they've made it as over-engineered as they have previous engines.

As soon as I get my grubby paws on this car it's going to Treadstone Performance to get a turbo fitted and tuning done. I think there will be a ton of support for this thing in the aftermarket. I hope that they use a forged rotating assembly. That will allow for about 10psi on a turbo... run Ethanol and it gets even better. I have high hopes for this baby.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by jayjayjayjay

What might be interesting for FI fans is to go for the smallest possible turbos to keep the weight gains down. Smaller turbos will also keep lag to a minimum. 300psi with lower boost keep weight down will see the car on a lot of drift tracks.

Lot of boost there captain with 300psi. That is like 12034278 gigawatts of power.

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by jayjayjayjay

What might be interesting for FI fans is to go for the smallest possible turbos to keep the weight gains down. Smaller turbos will also keep lag to a minimum. 300psi with lower boost keep weight down will see the car on a lot of drift tracks.

I didn't see this earlier... dude I'm sure you mean 30psi... maybe I dunno. but lemme help you out here... You select your turbo based on what kind of duty your car is doing. For example: a drag car will want a large turbo to increase flow in the upper rpm range to make more peak hp, a road or autox car would want a turbo a bit smaller than a drag car because you want a larger, more tractable powerband with a big meaty torque band. Usually for a dd you want a smaller turbo that spools quickly, but not so small as to congest the exhaust and cause excess backpressure. A daily driver turbo would build max boost +/- 3000rpm because, generally speaking that's the kind of range where you are going to be running quite a bit of the time. Keep in mind also, when you start doing turbo or supercharger builds, you will be moving your powerband to where the particular set up is most efficient, regardless of the stock powerband of the motor.

So in conclusion, you need to figure out what you want to do with the car first and foremost... then you make decisions on your build.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

As soon as I get my grubby paws on this car it's going to Treadstone Performance to get a turbo fitted and tuning done. I think there will be a ton of support for this thing in the aftermarket. I hope that they use a forged rotating assembly. That will allow for about 10psi on a turbo... run Ethanol and it gets even better. I have high hopes for this baby.

with such low boost, i'd go with a supercharger so that's what i plan to do. if you're willing to be a guinea pig for the turbo crowd, im willing to be the guinea pig for the SC crowd. assuming the ECU is tuneable, the hardest part will be to either 1.) convince a major manufacturer to adapt their SC kit to the boxer, or 2.) custom kit that isnt horrible

im 100% convinced that supercharging is the way to go, for this car. we'll just have to wait and see...

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by madfast

with such low boost, i'd go with a supercharger so that's what i plan to do. if you're willing to be a guinea pig for the turbo crowd, im willing to be the guinea pig for the SC crowd. assuming the ECU is tuneable, the hardest part will be to either 1.) convince a major manufacturer to adapt their SC kit to the boxer, or 2.) custom kit that isnt horrible

im 100% convinced that supercharging is the way to go, for this car. we'll just have to wait and see...

Im 100% convinced that forced induction is the way to go SC or TC. Depending on the flow characteristics of the motor I do believe a properly sized turbo is better due to:

1) less parasitic loss on the motor, SC uses a pulley, TC obviously uses exhaust gas. This allows for more WHP because the turbo uses less of the engine's energy to operate the turbo than the SC.

2) Due to the less "drag" on the engine, fuel consumption will be very close to stock

3) with the technology behind new turbos, spool lag is almost non existent (twin scroll design, ball bearings instead of journal bearings, "exotic" compounds like ceramic)

That said though, the SC is nearly instant boost... I say nearly because there is a bypass in most modern SCs. This allows for better fuel economy at cruise speed. The bypass closes almost immediately, and much faster than a turbo builds boost. Plus I love the sound of a SC when you put the hammer down (that whine/grown makes me cum in my pants). I believe we win either way. And hopefully someone does make a SC for these cars, I'm sure Eaton will come out with one... they made some for the old cobalt ss, so they are experts in making small, very efficient SCs that play to the advantage of a "smaller" displacement 4 cylinder (that said, the roots style is not very efficient in general, but it is quite reliable and makes good power). Also if you want something more efficient, I'm sure procharger will come out with something as well.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ryridesmotox

Keep in mind also, when you start doing turbo or supercharger builds, you will be moving your powerband to where the particular set up is most efficient, regardless of the stock powerband of the motor.

supercharger? moving powerband? not if done right:





gains across the board. flat as flat can be tq curve.