don't lift

[jm1681]

I actually played with this theory today, and it does prove true best I can tell. I was coming around an on-ramp earlier with miles of space all around me. I sped up (Still WELL within comfortable control), then backed off a bit mid-apex.

The back DEFINITELY started to rotate, but not to the point of squeal, it was just a well defined feeling of rotation. Now, this was also at VERY reasonable speeds over a very wide turn, so in tighter, faster situations, I would expect the results to be equally more dramatic.

Soon as my break-in is complete, I REALLY want to hit an auto-cross as soon as possible to see just what happens when I'm pushing. Rather figure it out when all I stand to hit is a cone, versus another car or something decidedly more solid.

[neutral]

Originally Posted by pr086

but thats the thing, in a FWD car you could lift any time any place and its not going to make a difference. at least in my car.

Depends on the car. Lift off mid corner in my CRX and holy hell snap oversteer. Cars that have a strong front weight bias tend to snap oversteer easier than ones that are more evenly balanced.

[RallySport Direct]

I am still getting used to the off throttle oversteer. I would think I would be used to it coming from Imprezas, but it is a different feel all together for sure. I have had a few "oh snap" moments, nothing too bad, but being that it is not my car, it does make you pucker up just a bit lol. I do love this car though, and am now even tapping the brakes mid-corner just to get that weight transferred forward, quickly followed by throttle. It does make me giggle like a little school girl LOL.

Thanks,
Rick

[Benzy]

If I may interject here with a question, what is 'lifting'?

[FLIPs_FR-S]

Gas all the way!! Never let up or this car will eat you alive! 2 poles avoided because of throttling out and stock tires. I can only imagine how it handles with good rubber. Been side ways a few times and I've never drifted b4 and this car helps you through it. Punch it next time.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by pr086

but thats the thing, in a FWD car you could lift any time any place and its not going to make a difference. at least in my car.

Your car is then setup to understeer like a stock FWD car. In a FWD car setup for the track or a racing application the understeer inherent to FWD will be dialed out and if you lift you will lose it. Driving a FWD fast through a corner is more "committed" then RWD because you can't modulate the rear with the throttle and thus a "lift-throttle" when at the limit usually ends up with the driver facing traffic.

In fact, "Don't Lift" is a FWD racing mantra.

Examples I'm not proud of:

So Folks, before you subscribe to any "saying" please keep in mind what the specific setup is on any car before approaching the limit. Also, it is my experience that the FRS is quite prone to LTO with the Nanny State turned off.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by Benzy

If I may interject here with a question, what is 'lifting'?

Lifting off the throttle

[GenkiElite]

When you lift at the limit on a corner the weight is transferred from the inside rear to the outside front. If your going fast enough you will lose rear traction causing oversteer toward the outside. A lot of other things come into play as to how bad you will slide. Front, rear or Awd will all transfer weight the same way without some sort of stability control stepping in. Quick reflexes and seat time is all you can do to,save yourself or prevent it from happening. I've done it a few times on purpose in competition but I don't recommend it if there's a wall. Be careful.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by pr086

what if you're at the limits of grip in a long corner, 50% throttle, and the rear starts coming out? what do you do in that situation?

I'd gently apply throttle and countersteer.

[Draco-REX]

I love Lift-throttle oversteer. Best feeling in the world, IMO. Set up for a corner, turn-in, then lift for a fraction to get the rear to stand up and shift, then back on and through the corner.

Of course, I do a LOT of SCCA RallyCross.

No e-brake needed:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3FI3Yfa94E"]071911 WOR RallyCross Afternoon Run#5 - YouTube[/ame]

But when it comes to tarmac, letting the rear end out is not the fast way to do things. Keep it tight and don't upset the car for the best times. I'm a little too slide-y for my own good when it comes to tarmac racing and place mid-pack usually.

[DjDATZ]

Originally Posted by Pekingduck

Always look where you want to go also tend to help.

This!!

[trinitron]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnhiFucXoVk"]Mk2 Toyota MR2 Snap oversteer. Slow down BEFORE th - YouTube[/ame]

You should always slow down before the corner and gradually apply throttle throughout your turn until you're straight again.
If you are going fast into a corner never lift but if you find yourself in a position where you have, countersteer against it.

[Quixote]

Beware arm chair racers...learn for yourself...

I highly recommend http://www.skipbarber.com for their courses - not cheap, but you get what you pay for...a while back I did a driving course at Lime Rock - I've never been so fast so smoothly as I did with one of the instructors there...

Just think of the 'cup of water' training example - it teaches you to be progressive in all things. Skip Barber use something similar.

Then of course there's the skid pad exercises which are fantastic if you want to learn how to control the car properly when the tail is out

[Lee358]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Beware arm chair racers...learn for yourself...

I highly recommend http://www.skipbarber.com for their courses - not cheap, but you get what you pay for...a while back I did a driving course at Lime Rock - I've never been so fast so smoothly as I did with one of the instructors there...

Just think of the 'cup of water' training example - it teaches you to be progressive in all things. Skip Barber use something similar.

Then of course there's the skid pad exercises which are fantastic if you want to learn how to control the car properly when the tail is out

I agree i just finished there 2day high performance school YESTERDAY it was my second skippy school you learn so much!


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