|
Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for! |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
09-03-2021, 07:11 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2020 86
Location: North VA
Posts: 183
Thanks: 39
Thanked 49 Times in 28 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Brake fade is getting out of hand
Over the last year I’ve definitely learned I could control brake fade… to a certain extent by not stabbing the brakes (which is just a good idea period and a part of learning), better cool down laps… etc… etc… etc…
Well at Summit Point Main yesterday, it didn’t matter how much I babied the brakes I had nothing by the end of the day. I kept having to back my brake points further and further and further back. On top of that my rotors are pretty warped at this point as well… The pulsing going into turn 1 was intense by the end of the day So since I have to buy and oil cooler now I’m just not in a place where I can buy that AND a BBK at the moment. Will buying just a nice set of stock sized rotors that are drilled and/or slotted help? Any recommendations on which rotors to get? Also I still have the stock brake lines which I haven’t changed yet because the car has just a little over 2k miles so I haven’t even crossed that bridge yet, could that be causing some of it? I already have XP10’s in the front and XP8’s in the back. |
09-03-2021, 08:06 AM | #2 |
ProCrastinationConsultant
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 Ranger, '18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 11,330
Thanks: 35,240
Thanked 13,675 Times in 6,782 Posts
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
what fluid are you running?
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
|
09-03-2021, 08:10 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2020 86
Location: North VA
Posts: 183
Thanks: 39
Thanked 49 Times in 28 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
09-03-2021, 08:49 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,258
Thanks: 18,355
Thanked 16,453 Times in 7,446 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Brake fade is getting out of hand
The pulsing is not warped rotors. It is the pads depositing material on them in uneven smears. Carbotech pads suck. I had the same issue with XP10s. Do you you have brake ducting ?
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
|
09-03-2021, 08:51 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Series.HyperBlue
Location: Southern California
Posts: 84
Thanks: 29
Thanked 84 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
My obvious guess is that it sounds like your fluid needs to be bled or changed if the pedal is getting soft. Pulsing or "warping" usually is a pad deposit problem rather than the rotor itself, especially if it goes away on the street. The way to manage that would be to get a more heat resistant pad. Yours might be fine, but there might be more exotic options. (CSG Spec, etc.) As far as rotors, I've heard that financially it makes more sense to stick with blanks and replace more frequently, because the cooling benefit from fancy rotors alone isn't much.
A cheap stopgap would be a makeshift air deflector on the lower control arm that would divert air to the front brakes. There's no fully premade solution, but it's a concept used in other cars. I use a Porsche GT3 part that I cut up a bit and zip tied, and it extended my hot laps maybe 15-20%. Are you turning off traction control? Doing the pedal dance when comfortable? With traction/stability on, the system will be overusing the brakes very quickly. Even with it "off", the rear brakes are being used a lot, and can overheat if you are driving aggressively. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Vesartis For This Useful Post: | DarkPira7e (09-22-2021) |
09-03-2021, 09:13 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2020 86
Location: North VA
Posts: 183
Thanks: 39
Thanked 49 Times in 28 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
No I don’t have ducting at all. Maybe that’s a good next step. Now that you mention it I don’t have any shake or pulsing on the street.
|
09-03-2021, 09:15 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,612
Thanks: 1,395
Thanked 3,930 Times in 2,052 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Above questions all good ^^^ How often do you bleed, any nannies on, track mode, 3-second hold on TC button? etc.
For me, 3-second hold worked fine at 11/10ths and beyond. But "Track Mode" is too intrusive... IMO should go with square pads, it's possible that with XP10/XP8 the rears aren't helping out enough. Never understood why so many insist on "staggered" pads, it just gives too much front bias in the only cases I'm familiar with (240Z, FD, S2000, BRZ) Also worth noting I've *never* had any issues just running off-the-shelf name-brand DOT4 or DOT5.1 from AutoZone/PepBoys/etc. even in the 550hp FD. In my limited experience with them, "race" brake fluids don't seem to last nearly as long before pedal starts to feel soft. I can get 6+ track days out of "normal" brake fluid. Last edited by ZDan; 09-03-2021 at 09:32 AM. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | CSG Mike (09-03-2021), DarkPira7e (09-22-2021) |
09-03-2021, 10:04 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: 2013 frs base
Location: central Virginia
Posts: 1,233
Thanks: 2,000
Thanked 1,148 Times in 554 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I ran Summit Point last fall. I have a n/a FRS with stock suspension and brakes. I have xp8, blank Ebay rotors on all 4 corners, and used Motul 600. I do have braided "soft" lines. I've run VIR with the same set up and have no problems. I try not to use my brakes on the cool down and I don't set my ebrake when parked in the paddock. Maybe the staggered set up is causing the problem.
|
09-03-2021, 12:47 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Nevermorange FRS
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,160
Thanks: 755
Thanked 4,200 Times in 1,803 Posts
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Assuming no brake ducts.
Street pads + lack of ducts is a pretty inevitable outcome. You'll have to step up your hardware. Buy proper race pads and a set of brake ducts. If you can't do ducts yet, start with proper pads. Before the event grab your 14mm wrench and swap in your track only pads (they'll be fine on the drive to the track) and you'll enjoy your day much more. Lots of good options here too: Raybestos ST series, CSG, GLOC, Cobalt XR1 etc.
__________________
SCCA T4 - FRS
|
09-03-2021, 01:07 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,258
Thanks: 18,355
Thanked 16,453 Times in 7,446 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Brake fade is getting out of hand
This is XP10 on BBK. Same compound F&R. You can see the smears all over the friction rings.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post: | CSG Mike (09-03-2021) |
09-03-2021, 01:45 PM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: 2013 frs base
Location: central Virginia
Posts: 1,233
Thanks: 2,000
Thanked 1,148 Times in 554 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Do you have pictures of your GT3 deflectors? I just got a set and have had to trim the crap off the front side to clear my wheels. I haven't been able work out a ziptie configuration to get them to stay in place. Did you leave your backing plates intact? Last edited by blsfrs; 09-03-2021 at 01:46 PM. Reason: added question |
|
09-03-2021, 02:19 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2020 86
Location: North VA
Posts: 183
Thanks: 39
Thanked 49 Times in 28 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
So I just pulled off the wheels to check the pads and they are absolutely smoked. Like almost nothing left. The brakes got so hot it melted the rubber bleed valve cover to the brake. I think maybe it’s because there was almost no pad left which had nowhere to dissipate heat… Maybe. My back XP8’s are still almost full of life, my 10’s are just shot. I guess time for a new pad. I’ll check into ducting as well.
|
09-03-2021, 02:35 PM | #13 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Series.HyperBlue
Location: Southern California
Posts: 84
Thanks: 29
Thanked 84 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
They definitely aren't sturdy. I bent the little triangle of the dust shield but I think ideally you want to take them off. I don't run them since switching to CSG pads, since they ended up makin the braking feel inconsistent. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Vesartis For This Useful Post: | blsfrs (09-03-2021) |
09-03-2021, 03:52 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,537
Thanks: 8,930
Thanked 14,187 Times in 6,839 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Try the CSG C2 front and rear. Yes, non-staggered. If you want to get even more life and capacity, go CE2 front C2 rear. |
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
How to identify different types of brake fade? | jonnyozero3 | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 8 | 01-14-2019 08:52 PM |
Brake Fade life | tofurun | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 14 | 08-30-2016 02:47 PM |
Brake Fade/Cooling? | TommyC | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 10 | 02-03-2016 01:44 PM |
Brake Fade | RAWR BRZ | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 4 | 09-27-2012 03:56 PM |
Odd brake pedal feel, fade? | yomny | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 27 | 09-11-2012 12:29 PM |