FRS made top ten daily driver sports cars

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The definition has gone from "Any production car that, with minimal modification, can be used competitively in motorsports"

To "certain production cars that are a purpose designed chassis that it does not share with any other vehicle and is used competitively in motor sports but not drag racing since it isn't a real motorsport"

This pretty much narrows things down to what I consider to be sports cars.

For the record I do not now nor have I ever thought an R/T was a sports car. It is just a very good case sample of how the 54 year old definition from the book is meaningless by today's standards and accepted definitions.
Oh, and drag racing is a motorsport the same as any type of racing is. To claim it is not is just plan wrong.

Pretty unrepresentative of both my points. Also just to note no one claimed drag racing isn't a motorsport, but moreover that for the purpose of defining Sportscars in the common idiom. For that purpose drag cars don't really apply as they are heavily modified cars of really any chassis type. You also purposefully didn't address any of my Coronet points, but I really don't care about that. Since it seems that, in this case, you're dead set on reductionist tactics simply to make or win a point (like there's any way to win an argument on the internet). I'll just leave it at agree to disagree and I'm going to exit this conversation at this final point.

Final note, because your out of hand dismissal here of Paul Frere's concept kind of gets my goat. How disrespectful of someone that probably contributed more to your own life's occupation and hobbies than just about anyone. This through his testing for major mfgs, recommendations, education programs and motorsports outreach. Really bad look man. Importantly, Frere's definition didn't come from the book I noted, but in another article during his long stint as Editor at the Eurpoean Road & Track (not 52 years ago.) Quoting the man or understanding his thoughts through his many writings are not some weakness. Of course historical perspective and nuance matter. Still the ideas are worth more than simple reduction, redirection and dismissal (subjective or not.) Once again, he was not "some guy", in the way that Chapman, Foyt, Bondurant, Andretti, McLaren are not just "some guys". He was one of the greatest who added to motorsports, craft, and discussion in almost every conceivable way. He wrote prolifically about motorsports from age 21 to 91 all the while he becoming an Driver, Engineer, and Journalist. He won championships in motorcycle, F1 (Ferrari) and Sports Car racing (LeMans.) He has a corner named for him at Spa-Francorchamps. He didn't care of his own ego so much so he wrote the book on car handling physics in simple terms so everyone could understand and participate. Previously driving greats and press espoused that going fast came mostly as a result of god given gifts. Indeed, how to go fast was an improvable skill. So sharp and valued were his insights that he continued to be a paid test driver for Mazda, Honda, and Porsche well into his 80's. He died in 2008 at 91 years old from the affects of injuries suffered testing the Civic Type-R in 2006 at the age of 89. He knew what he was talking about and deserves better than that from someone of your age and background.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Pretty unrepresentative of both my points. Also just to note no one claimed drag racing isn't a motorsport, but moreover that for the purpose of defining Sportscars in the common idiom. IMO drag cars don't really apply. You also purposefully didn't address any of my Coronet points. Since it seems that, in this case, you're dead set on reductionist tactics simply to make or win a point (like there's any way to win an argument on the internet), I'll just leave it at agree to disagree and I'm going to leave this conversation at this post.

Final note, because your out of hand dismissal here of Paul Frere's concept kind of gets my goat. How disrespectful of someone that probably contributed more to your own life's occupation and hobbies than just about anyone. This through his testing for major mfgs, recommendations, education programs and motorsports outreach. Really bad look man. Importantly, Frere's definition didn't come from the book I noted, but in another article during his long stint as Editor at the Eurpoean Road & Track (not 52 years ago.) Quoting the man or understanding his thoughts through his many writings are not some weakness. Of course historical perspective and nuance matter. Still the ideas are worth more than simple reduction, redirection and dismissal (subjective or not.) Once again, he was not "some guy", in the way that Chapman, Foyt, Bondurant, Andretti, McLaren are not just "some guys". He was one of the greatest who added to motorsports, craft, and discussion in almost every conceivable way. He wrote prolifically about motorsports from age 21 to 91 all the while he becoming an Driver, Engineer, and Journalist. He won championships in motorcycle, F1 (Ferrari) and Sports Car racing (LeMans.) He has a corner named for him at Spa-Francorchamps. He didn't care of his own ego so much so he wrote the book on car handling physics in simple terms so everyone could understand and participate. Previously driving greats and press espoused that going fast came mostly a result of god given gifts. Indeed, how to go fast was an improveable skill. So sharp and valued were his insights that he continued to be a paid test driver for Mazda, Honda, and Porsche well into his 80's. He died in 2008 at 91 years old from the affects of injuries suffered testing the Civic Type-R in 2006 at the age of 89. He knew what he was talking about and deserves better than that from someone of your age and background.

I apologize for appearing to disrespect the man as there was no intent of that. I simply meant to point out that with the information and cars of the time the definition was written it may have been accurate. It no longer applies. If you were quoting one material and showing another then it is a whole different matter.


I left the Coronet topic because I was done with that point. The materials you linked said the same thing I was saying. The Bee and the R/T were two trim levels of the same thing. Not a different "sister" car as you stated.


The definition you gave stated "motor sports" not "motor sports that are convent to my argument". You dismissed it as irrelevant when in the context of the definition it totally is.

[Dadhawk]

To me, I just don't care about the definitions of a sports car and what it is, probably because I have it all wrong anyway.

Everything that is defined as a "pure sports car" is what I consider a roadster instead (convertible, two seater, etc). I would never do anything involving "sport" in a roadster.

A sports car has to have a roof because I don't want to race a convertible (well, unless its an F1/Indy car).

I consider the Twins/Z's/most supercars, sports cars, basically road capable cars that can be run on a road course type race track. Roadsters can too, but not by me.

It's sort of like when someone says the Saturn V/Apollo rocket flew to the moon. No, its a rocket it doesn't "fly". Given enough thrust a brick can move through the atmosphere but that doesn't make it aerodynamic.

Flying means you have some level of control left behind when there is not power, and some chance of landing safely. Airplanes/helicopters/gliders/even the space shuttle "fly" when relieved of power. Rockets become bricks, hence they don't fly.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Cole

What's obsessive about the comment? I looked at your build thread once and the image of your janky exhaust mods has been forever burnt into my mind

Well you just validated my point. You need DEEP therapy dude.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

He died in 2008 at 91 years old from the affects of injuries suffered testing the Civic Type-R in 2006 at the age of 89. He knew what he was talking about and deserves better than that from someone of your age and background.

Those darn Hondas! If I could have warned him in 2006, I would have! Always it seems a roll of the dice with those cars, can't trust it.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

To me, I just don't care about the definitions of a sports car and what it is, probably because I have it all wrong anyway.

Amen, to all of it, not just the quoted.

Besides, who cares? Life's too short. Let's just go have fun!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Amen, to all of it, not just the quoted.

Besides, who cares? Life's too short. Let's just go have fun!

What the hell do YOU know about it ....... you're too damn BIG to drive a proper sports car ......




humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

What the hell do YOU know about it ....... you're too damn BIG to drive a proper sports car ......




humfrz

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

If we got lost in that thing we would probably still be missing!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If we got lost in that thing we would probably still be missing!

Wind blowing through my scalp.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Wind blowing through my scalp.

The size of that thing the wind would be blowing through your crotch.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The size of that thing the wind would be blowing through your crotch.

I feel like we've been here.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The size of that thing the wind would be blowing through your crotch.

BTW, Mrs. Ultra busted out laughing when she got to this. You totally got her.