twins vs last gen cayman?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by mrg666

And, yes my suspension is still stock. No plans to upgrade it yet.

Probably you don't push the car too much. I had excessive body roll even with the 205 Advan's.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Probably you don't push the car too much. I had excessive body roll even with the 205 Advan's.

Since I don't track my FR-S regularly, yes, I probably don't push it that much. However I frequently find myself enjoying the boost within laws and reason. This is my only car and the pavement in our area is not really ideal. I don't want lower and stiffer suspension for my daily drive but better shock absorption is desirable. I am looking at Bilstein B6 for a possible swap in the future.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Our cars weren't designed to lose grip but out of curiosity, what makes the cayman inherently better? I don't quite understand.

The rear springs were overrated. Why did they change the spring rates in the revision model? Too many accidents?

It is ok if you don't understand, you can test drive a Cayman and decide yourself. I am not a huge fan either, but I cannot ignore that stock vs. stock or BRZ with changed tires vs. stock, the Cayman is still superior.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The rear springs were overrated. Why did they change the spring rates in the revision model? Too many accidents?

It is ok if you don't understand, you can test drive a Cayman and decide yourself. I am not a huge fan either, but I cannot ignore that stock vs. stock or BRZ with changed tires vs. stock, the Cayman is still superior.

They changed it because they need to make changes so people buy it. Looking at spring rates alone doesn't mean much but if you consider the sway bar change it's even less important. I don't understand but it sounds like you don't either. If course the two cars handle different. I'm not surprised the car with the 20k premium and the engine in the middle of the thing is going to handle better. Does that mean the twins were designed to lose grip? No. Again, what makes the cayman suspension design better?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

They changed it because they need to make changes so people buy it.

On revision cars they change usually things like front or rear bumpers, tail lights, interior, audio system. These things sell, not suspension changes.

Originally Posted by fatoni

Looking at spring rates alone doesn't mean much but if you consider the sway bar change it's even less important.

Now you need to drive a '17 revised car and a Cayman .

You are supposed to be longer in this forum and you should know that different vendors changed the spring rates too. KW, Bilstein, Ohlins to name a few. Better tires was the one part of the equation, revised spring rates was the other part.

Originally Posted by fatoni

Does that mean the twins were designed to lose grip? No. Again, what makes the cayman suspension design better?

You don't understand that our cars were designed at the beginning to be tail happy and you want to explain to you why the Cayman suspension is better?

Maybe you can check this review to understand the main differences ...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4"]Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

On revision cars they change usually things like front or rear bumpers, tail lights, interior, audio system. These things sell, not suspension changes.


Now you need to drive a '17 revised car and a Cayman .

You are supposed to be longer in this forum and you should know that different vendors changed the spring rates too. KW, Bilstein, Ohlins to name a few. Better tires was the one part of the equation, revised spring rates was the other part.


You don't understand that our cars were designed at the beginning to be tail happy and you want to explain to you why the Cayman suspension is better?

Maybe you can check this review to understand the main differences ...

ive seen the video. im not convinced that the spring rates were as catastrophic as you claim but even if it mattered and you arent cornering on bump stops anyways in stock trim, you say that outside of spring rate and tire the cayman is better. as simply as i know how to ask, what is it that makes the cayman suspension better? im convinced you dont have an answer.

[Ernest72]

My BRZ is about 16 months old and I have a JDL UEL and Q300, cosworth air filter, perrin intake tube (sound generator delete). Other than that stock. The car is a blast, but many days I think about picking up a used last gen Cayman. Only thing stopping me is better gas mileage and less maintenance of the BRZ. Also likely the BRZ is more reliable. I also have two kids, so having the rear seat helps. I do still have my 04 WRX so, the 2 seater is still an option. But staying with the BRZ for now, however I still think about it weekly. I will likely get a Cayman in the future.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

ive seen the video. im not convinced that the spring rates were as catastrophic as you claim but even if it mattered and you arent cornering on bump stops anyways in stock trim, you say that outside of spring rate and tire the cayman is better. as simply as i know how to ask, what is it that makes the cayman suspension better? im convinced you dont have an answer.

It is difficult to describe in words how an advanced multi-link rear suspension works. The best choice is to drive one and tell yourself. An explanation I can offer is that the rigidity is much better, because forces are distributed more evenly. On our cars there is a similar example, if you install inverted rear dampers. Again such a design offers a better rigidity, but not that advanced like a true multi-link suspension. Such dampers have been measured and there is a difference in performance.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is difficult to describe in words how an advanced multi-link rear suspension works. The best choice is to drive one and tell yourself. An explanation I can offer is that the rigidity is much better, because forces are distributed more evenly. On our cars there is a similar example, if you install inverted rear dampers. Again such a design offers a better rigidity, but not that advanced like a true multi-link suspension. Such dampers have been measured and there is a difference in performance.

Nah. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is difficult to describe in words how an advanced multi-link rear suspension works. The best choice is to drive one and tell yourself. An explanation I can offer is that the rigidity is much better, because forces are distributed more evenly. On our cars there is a similar example, if you install inverted rear dampers. Again such a design offers a better rigidity, but not that advanced like a true multi-link suspension. Such dampers have been measured and there is a difference in performance.

In motion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-link_suspension

981 Suspension: https://www.elephantracing.com/boxst...ion-navigator/

991 Suspension: https://www.elephantracing.com/991-s...ion-navigator/

Porsche suspension diagram page: https://www.elephantracing.com/porsc...sion-diagrams/

The FR-S/GT-86/BRZ rear suspension is multi-link: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...alkaround.html

Multi-link is multi-link. The remainder of the description is just marketing.

If we are measuring, we can compare designs, dynamic camber/toe changes and materials.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

I think they look awesome. Like a baby Ferrari or something. I'll probably be looking for a current generation S at some point when they become the previous generation.

A baby something.
Perhaps...
...a baby PORSCHE!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Multi-link is multi-link. The remainder of the description is just marketing.

Your own definition is a marketing hype. There are many kinds of multi-link suspensions and not everything is similar.


I won't continue posting here. The whole topic became a nonsense.

[CatDaddysBBQ]

I have b6's on my car (with RCE Tarmac springs). They're lovely.

[venturaII]

Multilink has ZERO to do with rigidity, and everything to do with facilitating complex and advantageous geometry changes throughout the wheel's travel. You can make a MacPherson strut suspension as rigid as a bank vault, but it still won't perform as well as a multilink setup because it doesn't manage the wheel's geometry as well. That's not marketing hype - it's simple math.