T(h)or's GT86 hammer (Europe) - essential track setup

[Tor]

I now feel a little better about my OEM spoiler...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDLzxmJl5I#t=2915"]Automotive Aerodynamics Episode 1: Flow Visualizations of MR2, RX7, Supra, FRS[/ame]

At time 48:35, if direct link doesn't work.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tor

I believe you that it changes the feeling of the car. But still, I believe the gain is negligible in terms of performance figures. Especially on the track where the rpm are always high. I doubt it would make any real measurable difference in track times.

I'm convinced though that it would make a measurable difference in engine bay temperatures.

I could be wrong on both.

You need a catless header to see a difference in high rpms. The catted headers fix mainly the torque dip, but this is also very useful. Maybe not so much in track, but much more on real life. Regarding the temperatures, I was thinking about a Zircotec coating:




I haven't checked it yet with them, but it looks that you need to ship the header in UK for the coating.

[Tor]

I bet that Zircotec is pretty expensive?

The car is running really great on Wayno's latest tune. I am not sure I think it's worth the hassle removing the cat. The way it is now, I can get pulled over or take the car to the mandatory TÜV inspection without worries. I'll might just accept that the nr. 1 coil needs replacing eventually. For the moments I put the plans on hold.


Now that I am at it, I might give a short update. Since last post, I have installed a short shifter from IRP-Germany. (Thread here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111626 )




It's still giving me some headache with rattle, but I am working on solving it with support from IRP. I am pretty close to getting it solved, but work (and now the weather) is getting in the way as usual.

Also, I had one last round on the Nürburgring GP circuit (literally "one" timed round + entry and exit round). Surprisingly, it was 2:36. And it was really just thought to be a warm up lap without me trying particularly hard. I think I could have been even faster if I had gotten some more rounds:

- It was the first time with the new shifter and it definitely takes some getting used to. I was especially struggling with the downshifts. The main problem was "what gear is it in at the moment", more than the shifting itself.

- I have been practicing toe and heal (instead of heal and toe) on the street for some time. I did it to force myself to be more active moving my feet because I think I am being too "lazy" when looking at my older videos. It works fine on the street, but on the track when the brake pedal is much more depressed, the gas pedal is relatively a lot higher, which caught me by surprise. That's the "dun-dun-dun" during some of the downshifts: Giving too much throttle and hitting the 6000 rpm rev limiter I set when the clutch is depressed (flat floor shifting, which I forgot all about during the upshifts ). I am not sure if I will go back to heal and toe or not. I might switch back and see if my right foot got more "active".

Funny as the season came towards the end, I have been having more and more "don't crash it now" thoughts. I moved to a house with a garage because of that car, and it would have been a weird feeling if the garage would have been empty over the winter. On the exit-round (interruption due to some bikes crashing) I made a major mistake of lifting off the throttle while taking a corner pretty aggressive. The result you can see for yourself in the video.

It made me stop and think. I think it's time for some drift training so I am more confident when the rear steps out and better prepared to catch (or not make) a mistake like this again. And I think the time is now because I can feel that I am getting faster and closer to the limits. Hence, I left it at that one round which I think is not a bad end to the season.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGh4h_MOSSI"]ONE last lap at the GP circuit. - YouTube[/ame]

[Twinguin]

Big thumbs up! Nice to see how much effort and attention to details you put into this! And yeah, drift training is quite nice to see the effect - although we don't actually want it on the track.

Also, as training I always like to recommend the Drift & Sportive training at the ADAC Grevenbroich.

[Whooosah]

Nice! Thanks for all the time and effort put into your videos. I enjoy watching them. Pretty cool to watch the footwork too. By the g-meter looks like you got some good lateral grip hitting 1.4g. Great to see such a dedicated track build that is not too over the top. Goes to show you can have a lot of fun with this car with a few track mods.

[ysu]

Are you driving with pedal dance, mate? That spin looks like something I've been near to but somehow never gotten into - but I'm only driving with the 5s TC off as of yet.

Originally Posted by Whooosah

Nice! Thanks for all the time and effort put into your videos. I enjoy watching them. Pretty cool to watch the footwork too. By the g-meter looks like you got some good lateral grip hitting 1.4g. Great to see such a dedicated track build that is not too over the top. Goes to show you can have a lot of fun with this car with a few track mods.

I was watching that G meter, too, but I think it's not correctly calibrated, as the 1.4 only comes in right-hand corners, while left ones top out at 1.1 - It's still averages to 1.25 or so, which is very good!

[Tor]

Thank you all.

Yes, I am driving in pedal dance mode. This was 100% drivers error, I don't think "5 sec off" would have helped me at all.

First of all, I almost "Scandinavian flicked" it into the turn, coming out of the lefthander, It slid out a little bit where I should have stomped the gas pedal and driven it out. Instead, I went off the gas which probably made the right rear have even less grip, while the left rear having lots of weight on it and now engine braking. Perfect setting for sliding out!

What is a Thorsen diff even doing in that situation? Is it open or locking under braking like a 1.5/2 way clutch type LSD? I also don't know if "electronic limited slip" (which is disabled by PD) would have added brake input to the right rear? Nevertheless, I doubt it would have made a difference since the right rear probably played very little role at that point.

If I had acted correctly and gone on the gas and still spun out, I would be more concerned if it would send all the power to the low grip wheel (due to lack of weight and no Electronic Diff to add a slight brake input). But that a bit hypothetical.

The way the car is set up now is not as forgiving as before. Now it has more front camber, toe out and rear swaybar is in hard setting. Also, I run slightly more cold tire pressure in the rear (which I don't know if it's appropriate for the low temps at that day).

I like that the car is more lively and doesn't push early mid-corner as before. If I go too aggressive on the gas in the beginning of the turn, the rear comes out a bit. Once I am settled in the turn with (I guess) settled forces, the car will push again, which usually is after the apex. This is the optimum fun balance for me, I just need to react to it correctly - and I generally don't!! Looking at the videos, when the rear steps out I countersteer correctly, but go slightly off the gas and it straightens itself most of the time. Here the threshold for that kind of incorrect correction was obviously exceeded.

That's why I need drift training. Not to drift, but to know it is okay to go on the throttle and see the effect in a controlled environment.

As Wayno wrote earlier, my previous setup was probably easier to be fast with, since throttle would just adjust the amount of understeer, so you could just "push it around the track".


Yes, the Gs are probably not very accurate as it is taken by Harry's Laptimer from the iPhone Gyros.

Most right-hand turns are banked, so it's normal to see more G's in those curves (in the other videos 1.3Gs). In this video, I do hit 1.3G briefly in the second lefthander in the Mercedes arena as well. So either it's showing too much all round, or it may be slightly off left/right causing rounding errors perhaps. I take these numbers as a rough value.

[Twinguin]

Originally Posted by Tor

Yes, the Gs are probably not very accurate as it is taken by Harry's Laptimer from the iPhone Gyros.

Did you calibrate it while mounted in the car? If the phone is at a slight angle, then the values will be off a bit for left and right G-forces. I haven't used it in a while but there was an option for an initial setup, calibration, if I remember correctly.

Cheers

[Tor]

I use the standard preset which the app say should work under normal conditions.

I pay a lot of attention to other data, but as I don't consider the accelerometers of the iPhone accurate in any case I don't pay much attention to these particular values. I'd rather look at the Gs being low, medium and high. As such this round looks like the "higher" end of the scale.

Comparing to other of my videos it shows 0.4G going down the main straight, I assume because the straight is cambered to allow water drainage. All my older vids say 0.3. So probably it's 0.1G off, which would put the true values in the 1.3G range (though then I would have 1.4Gs peak in the last lefthander of the Mercedes arena?). I will just be content that the Gs were pretty high and the lap time for my standards was pretty good.

I think I even lost a second or maybe even 2, letting that ultra-fast white BMW by (insane how he disappears) in the last chicane. I am looking so much forward to next year. My goal is to lap in the low 2:30 with a free round. If I hadn't had to give way to him, a 2:35 would have been possible. Shaving 2-3 seconds off that should be realistic.

My next priority is a proper GPS receiver like the SkyPRO 160 Dual. It would be cool to have useful cornering speeds. But one thing that already is cumbersome is getting all the devices up and running before going out (not to mention charged at home). So far my tasks are:

- Turn on 2 cameras and make sure they are recording
- Turn on lamp in footwell
- Make sure Harry's Laptimer is ready
- Turn off the screen of the radio (if I didn't do already)
- Turn on Tactrix data logger (or second iPhone to monitor oil temp, which is the biggest pain because it sometimes fails to connect to the OBD2 adapter)
- Getting the car in PD mode (which sometimes requires several restarts if waiting for a long time in the pitlane)

I need several minutes already to get the above ready. Add to that:
- Get strapped in
- Put on helmet
- Put on Sunglasses
- Put on gloves

So this might explain when others are walking casually around the pitlane waiting for the stint to start, that I am already sitting the car with the engine running. If I am not that willing to chat, it's not because I don't want to socialize. It's because I am busy getting all my devices up and running.

[brzest]

Originally Posted by Tor

I use the standard preset which the app say should work under normal conditions.

I pay a lot of attention to other data, but as I don't consider the accelerometers of the iPhone accurate in any case I don't pay much attention to these particular values. I'd rather look at the Gs being low, medium and high. As such this round looks like the "higher" end of the scale.

Comparing to other of my videos it shows 0.4G going down the main straight, I assume because the straight is cambered to allow water drainage. All my older vids say 0.3. So probably it's 0.1G off, which would put the true values in the 1.3G range (though then I would have 1.4Gs peak in the last lefthander of the Mercedes arena?). I will just be content that the Gs were pretty high and the lap time for my standards was pretty good.

I think I even lost a second or maybe even 2, letting that ultra-fast white BMW by (insane how he disappears) in the last chicane. I am looking so much forward to next year. My goal is to lap in the low 2:30 with a free round. If I hadn't had to give way to him, a 2:35 would have been possible. Shaving 2-3 seconds off that should be realistic.

My next priority is a proper GPS receiver like the SkyPRO 160 Dual. It would be cool to have useful cornering speeds. But one thing that already is cumbersome is getting all the devices up and running before going out (not to mention charged at home). So far my tasks are:

- Turn on 2 cameras and make sure they are recording
- Turn on lamp in footwell
- Make sure Harry's Laptimer is ready
- Turn off the screen of the radio (if I didn't do already)
- Turn on Tactrix data logger (or second iPhone to monitor oil temp, which is the biggest pain because it sometimes fails to connect to the OBD2 adapter)
- Getting the car in PD mode (which sometimes requires several restarts if waiting for a long time in the pitlane)

I need several minutes already to get the above ready. Add to that:
- Get strapped in
- Put on helmet
- Put on Sunglasses
- Put on gloves

So this might explain when others are walking casually around the pitlane waiting for the stint to start, that I am already sitting the car with the engine running. If I am not that willing to chat, it's not because I don't want to socialize. It's because I am busy getting all my devices up and running.

You can start your GoPros with Harrys Lap Timer automatically, when you press start/record (or pass the start/finish line). Also you could see the oil/water temp in HLT with a OBDII wifi/bluetooth receiver, that would also kind of get rid of the need for the GPS, since you could log/see wheel sensor speed, which is very accurate (unless you want to log your racing line, then you want the GPS). I used this until I got the Pivot DualGauge (for water/oil temp), which also uses the OBDII, so couldn't use both (loved that setup though, since it was nice to see extra data in videos).

On another subject, I finally got my ST XTA this week, so excited to install them, sadly can't drive until late march Are you using aftermarket toe arms, or is the factory setup working well enough?

[Tor]

Unfortunately, I don't use GoPro. And iPhone only supports WiFi OBD2 adapters which are very slow data rate. I did try to let it connect to Harry's lap timer and it wasn't really working. Are you using Android? I want to use my head unit to display oil temp, I will do so using the back-up camera input and an Android mini PC. A PDNanny (so the car start automatically in PD mode) is on the wishlist too.

I am using factory toe arms. Aftermarkets are only required if you lower the car a lot and wand to stand the rear wheels back up towards zero camber.

Also, taking the car to a "race oriented shop" is a waste of money in my humble opinion, unless you need them to help you decide the values to run. But there is so much info online what works for the FT86. A regular alignment shop, that has a good laser rack and a cooperative employee is perfectly fine. I went to mine in advance with the car and told him what I had installed, what I use the car for, what values I wanted and asked if he could adjust it the way I wanted. With that sorted, I made an appointment.

Alignment is not a one-time deal anyway when a car that is driven on track (or street through potholes etc) the alignment will change over time and needs to be readjusted. You may know that already but it seems to be overlooked by many.

Another misunderstood thing (and a waste of money IMHO) is corner balancing. Many think weight distribution of the car is changed, which obviously would require relocation of heavy components. The car will have exactly the same weight distribution front/rear and left/right after a corner balance. It only changes the weight distribution diagonally. Kind of like stuffing paper under one leg of an unstable table. That should ensure that the car feels exactly the same in left and right turns, with regards to under/oversteer. Again, you may know that but just saying... Whatever minuscule difference I might have, I absolutely can't feel a difference. The car is from factory close to optimum and I think it would take some serious effort (more so than properly installing coilovers) to mess it up.

[brzest]

Originally Posted by Tor

Unfortunately, I don't use GoPro. And iPhone only supports WiFi OBD2 adapters which are very slow data rate. I did try to let it connect to Harry's lap timer and it wasn't really working. Are you using Android? I want to use my head unit to display oil temp, I will do so using the back-up camera input and an Android mini PC. A PDNanny (so the car start automatically in PD mode) is on the wishlist too.

I am using factory toe arms. Aftermarkets are only required if you lower the car a lot and wand to stand the rear wheels back up towards zero camber.

Also, taking the car to a "race oriented shop" is a waste of money in my humble opinion, unless you need them to help you decide the values to run. But there is so much info online what works for the FT86. A regular alignment shop, that has a good laser rack and a cooperative employee is perfectly fine. I went to mine in advance with the car and told him what I had installed, what I use the car for, what values I wanted and asked if he could adjust it the way I wanted. With that sorted, I made an appointment.

Alignment is not a one-time deal anyway when a car that is driven on track (or street through potholes etc) the alignment will change over time and needs to be readjusted. You may know that already but it seems to be overlooked by many.

Another misunderstood thing (and a waste of money IMHO) is corner balancing. Many think weight distribution of the car is changed, which obviously would require relocation of heavy components. The car will have exactly the same weight distribution front/rear and left/right after a corner balance. It only changes the weight distribution diagonally. Kind of like stuffing paper under one leg of an unstable table. That should ensure that the car feels exactly the same in left and right turns, with regards to under/oversteer. Again, you may know that but just saying... Whatever minuscule difference I might have, I absolutely can't feel a difference. The car is from factory close to optimum and I think it would take some serious effort (more so than properly installing coilovers) to mess it up.

I have the wifi adapter (can't remember the name, but one of the few that work with iPhones) and it worked quite well once I got it set up correctly, was a bit of a pain reconnecting every time though, which is why I went with the gauge. I kind of miss the overlays I got with it for the videos from HLT (wheel sensor speed, which is smoother than the 10HZ XGPS160, RPM, throttle position etc). I'm also an iPhone user, so not alot of options out there.
Here's a video shortly after I got the car, crappy driving but cool features on the video, I think. It's a bit lagging becuase I think my old iPhone 5 couldn't really handle filming, timing and logging.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiamwoLSXg8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiamwoLSXg8[/ame]

I also bought the XGPS160 before the last trackday of the year, works great for viewing corner speeds, driving lines etc.

I hear you about corner balancing, definitely not in the plans from the start, allthough might try it at some point, when I recheck/adjust my alignment at some point, since it's actually very reasonable here (alignment is €50-60, corner balancing €80ish) and I'll get to know the weight of the car.
How much toe are you running front/rear? My current plan is to run the XTA's with SPL LCA's (going to vacation in the US in march, I'll just put them in my luggage ) and possibly Whiteline Positive Traction kit. Not doing swaybars for now, will drive a bit without and see if it's necessary.
Also what is your setup for the XTA's on the road and the track (how many clicks)? I know it's probably very individual, but trying to get an idea where to start.

Thanks!

[Tor]

If you can check the name of that adapter it would be much appreciated. I don't get anywhere near those update rates. Rpm as an example lags badly behind. Another option for me would be to run HLT on Android on the head unit using a mini-PC instead. I am a bit undecided about that.

SPL arms are really nice. I would like those too, but they would be too obvious at TÜV inspections. I have the positive traction inserts too but I didn't install them yet (a bit afraid to mess up the threads as quite a few has done).

I run 1 mm toe out in the front and 1 mm toe in rear. In the beginning, I ran 7 clicks on the street but I got too lazy changing it around. So the last part of the season I just ran the setting I use on track 5 in the front, 4 rear. A girlfriend got car sick from driving with me, according to her it was much better at 12 clicks.

Now I have Michelin Primacy on the car (my grippy winter tires ) and I set it as well at 12 clicks I think. I don't drive it much right now, though.

[Tor]

Not driving much at the moment because of the winter weather. I'm not working on the car much either as it's so bloody cold in my garage.

I did do a bit of weight reduction, however. Replaced this:



With this:



The car is noticeably faster without that extra weight.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw0JiDWUpBc"]DIY tuning: Performance check... - YouTube[/ame]